Soft stools on grain free

[Jennie]

We switched Lucy to Orijen about 2 weeks after we got her. Since then, she has started the day with fairly firm stools which turn into loose stools by the end of the night (not diarrhea, just loose/soft - like ugh, I don't know toothpaste?

I've tried pulling her back from 3 cups a day to 2 1/2 cups a day, but she's still loose. Now we've added treats for training and things have stayed the same if not worsened a bit (I expected this). Her vet feels like she is gaining weight appropriately, but thinks that maybe this issues is caused by her being grain free - he thinks that she might need the fiber to "bulk her up", but he didn't seem too keen on the whole "grain free" food hype to begin with. I think grain free makes sense...

any thoughts?

P.S. Lucy's stools have never been totally firm, even on her old food (Nutrisource)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I have that same problem with Jackdoodle...he normally has very nice, firm, small stools, but only if his kibble has a decent amount of rice in it. On grain-free diets, or diets where the main carbohydrate is potato, his stools get very loose. I am currently using Nature's Variety Prairie Salmon & Brown Rice, which has a good amount of rice bran (fiber) in it, and his stools are perfect. Grain free diets seem to work better for dogs who are also getting fresh home-cooked or raw foods as a major part of their diets.
The Dog Food Project has this to say about added fiber in the diets of dogs who eat primarily dry kibble:

"Fiber is the part of carbohydrates that can not be digested by the dog. Depending on nutritional goals, varying levels of dietary fiber with different properties are necessary to make a highly processed food source like commercial kibble "work", since a dog's digestive tract is not designed to process a diet with such high levels of carbohydrates - most commercial dry foods contain 40-50%, low quality ones even more.
Depending on the inclusion of ingredients that are naturally high in fiber (e.g. brown rice, oats, certain fruits or vegetables), a food may or may not include specific, isolated types of fiber."
For people who argue that it is not natural for dogs to eat grains, that they do not eat grains in "the wild", the article goes on to say: " ...it is also not natural for dogs to eat highly processed commercial products with a carb content of generally 40% and more, and a moisture content of only around 10% as opposed to a more natural 60-70%. Added fiber is required to make such formulations work for the pets who eat a dry diet."

I think the point here is that if you are going to try to simulate the diets of "dogs in the wild"- (and when was the last time you saw one of those, lol?)- kibble would not be any part of it. The people I know who use grain-free kibbles most successfully, such as Lynne NJ, are those who are providing more than half of their dogs diets in the form of fresh foods.

[Lynne Fowler-Oodles of Doodles]

A totally grain free diet will cause softer stools. There is nothing to "bulk" it up. By providing fresh grains and fresh fruits and veggies you will harden up the stool but still make it less "plastic" looking since the junk is not in there. The stool will almost melt away in the rain with a fresh food diet, which is a nice side effect. Over time there is also less gas and odor to dog and stool. I have been feeding fresh now for over a year and dogs are healthy, stools are good, and yet sometimes one will still have that looser stool if not enough fiber is consumed.

[Teresa]

This is a brand new learning for me about grain free! I can't believe how much I have learned in the 15 minutes since I joined this group!

[Lynne Fowler-Oodles of Doodles]

More then you ever wanted to know about poop!

[Adrianne Matzkin]

Samantha's eats Whole Foods Holistic kibble. It is not grain free - is has brown rice, barley and oatmeal. I cook for her chicken, rice and veggies for dinner. I have noticed that her stools are different in the am and in the pm - firm in the am and loose (not diarrhea) in the pm. I can only assume it was what she ate the meal before.