External Factors Interfering with Training Efforts

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

Do any of you have persons, places or things that hamper your training efforts with your Doodles?

 

I find that my DH, bless his heart, even though he has the best of intentions, constantly undermines our (my?) training efforts with Tara.

 

A couple of days ago we were in the car stopped at a parking lot at a store. I was planning to stay in the car with Tara and DH was going to go inside. Tara looked at him questioning if she could go with him,. At that point he gave her the 'Stay" command which was not appropriate. She would have had to stay frozen in that spot until he returned to release her. I have been trying (for a 1  1/2 years now) to teach her both "stay" and "wait" but he uses them interchangeably. Thereby negating the usefulness of either. FRUSTRATING!!!!

 

He is retired and spends a lot of time with Tara so short of murder or divorce I am not sure how to resolve this. :(

 

We also have a neighbor who loves Tara and encourages her to jump on him. He knows we don't approve but he says "it's okay if she jumps on Uncle Jimmy".  He recently lost his own dog to cancer and comes to our house to get "loves" from Tara. Due to his loss we have pretty much kept quiet about it.  But we know that it is confusing for her and she doesn't understand that it is "okay" (his opinion) to jump on him but not anyone else.

 

Do any of you have similar issues that you are challenged with in your training efforts and what solutions have you found?

 

 

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I do run into the situation with people encouraging the "jumping" with Guinness because he's so small, and kind of "dances" when he jumps so everyone thinks it's really cute (the poodle in him). I always tell people that he's a Therapy Dog and so he can never be allowed to jump or he could "lose his certification"....a bit of an exaggeration, but it really seems to work. Nobody ever encourages Big Murph to jump...they're way too scared. We did have the problem of inconsistent expectations between myself and DH, especially on walks. We did that private lesson with Murphy last week, and DH came with me. We both heard all the same information from the trainer, and I really think that's going to help us so much (once Murph can get out for a walk again). I definitely would encourage the family (or the primary caregivers) to do at least a session or two together during the training process. We didn't do that initially....I took Murphy to his puppy training alone, and that probably contributed to the problems later. I did Guinness's training myself, but he was a different kind of dog. He was able to handle the different expectations between DH and me without ever seeming to be confused. He's very intuitive and was much easier to train than Murphy who really needs that consistency. Great discussion topic...thanks, Ricki.

[Adina P]

Your situation is VERY frustrating and it's a very common one. I've tried and tried to teach 'others' how to respond to my dogs to reduce the chances they'll jump or act crazy at greetings to no avail. Other people just don't 'get it' and never will. So I've decided, except for household members, it's best to just not worry about 'other people' and train the dog.

What I mean is that I will NEVER get my friends and guests to respond perfectly---it's NOT their job. They aren't the ones who have training plans for my dogs. They just react intuitively (which is usually incorrect) and aren't going to be trained any time soon.

So MY job is to continue to train my dogs so that regardless of the response of others (which is ultimately just another type of distraction) they still behave and they still obey. Boca is a jumper...at this point it is SUPER annoying because she still does it to us too. But we've just started training and we're not at the point of doing stays so I just don't EXPECT anything more from her. And as far as my friends go...I've also come to the decision that if THEY don't feel like 'helping' then they deserve to be jumped on =) Too bad for them.

Think of 'other people' as squirrels or other distractions that are out of your control. You'll never 'train' squirrels to not be tempting. You just have to train your dog so that it does not matter what distraction pops up...Tara will still focus on what you've asked her to do.

As far as spousal consistency. That's a tough one. It's one thing for strangers and friends to make obedience difficult (because their responses are distracting). That's something that with training won't matter. But it's a whole other issue when household members change commands and cause confusion.

I think it's really important to at least have the conversation and talk about about goals and expectations and define your commands and come up with a benign 'correction' phrase to remind the person when they goof up. I got this last idea from a training book. The book suggested "bubble gum" as the phrase to say when another family member screws up a command. It's light-hearted, not punitive sounding and it's just a reminder.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I really like the analogy of thinking of other people as a distraction (like squirrels) and proofing against that the same way that we do against other things. I never quite looked at it like that, but it really does make a lot of sense.

[Adina P]

I'm glad that was helpful. I really do see it that way. The tough part in training, though, is to realize when some people are going to be 'too much' and not put your dog in that situation because they are just NOT going to obey but practice DISobeying. So it does help to find a few helpful friends who will come by or meet you somewhere JUST for such practice. Usually if they are there FOR that reason they are more likely to comply with instructions than if they are coming to visit or stopping by unannounced.

Because a person standing a few feet away is different than a person standing close.
A person standing close and looking away is different than a person making eye contact.
The person making eye contact is different than the person trying to pet the dog.
The person petting the dog calmly is different than the person squealing and chirping and jumping up and down while they are petting the dog.
The person in the park is different than the one knocking on the door of a dog's home...and so on.

So you have to figure out the differing levels of distraction and start easy and work up to it with kind helpers =) Otherwise it's always jumping to the highest level of difficulty and that's hard to get right, especially on a surprise-i'm-just-stopping-by-cuz-i-was-in-the-neighborhood basis.

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

I like the "bubble gum" idea. I have to admit my reminders have been less the subtle lately!! :) We talk about Tara's training regularly and he seems to be on board but he tends to be "single tasking" most of the time so if his mind is on somthing else than he gets careless about commands. Anyone know how to train a man to multi-task??

I have been thinking about telling the neighbor that we are taking Tara's training "to the next level" so she won't be allowed to jump on him anymore. That way it sounds like her issue instead of sounding like a problem with him.

I agree with your thoughts about just continuing to work with the dog as all the rest of it is out of our control most of the time like squirrels (as far as strangers' and guests' behaviors). It is really refreshing to find the rare person who actually "gets it" and can be helpful in your endeavors though!!

[F, Calla & Luca]

Funny, when tell my son to Tell him no" or something he says, "He's your dog, Mom".

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

My problem is with my DD. She has lived with dogs since she was born but has never been responsible for their care or training, and she loses her temper and patience easily. The current problem with Jack's barking and lunging at people at the door has been an issue with her, as he is now acting this way towards my grandson's friends. These kids are now in middle school and some of them do not look like kids any more.
The other day, I was in the office working and my grandson's teammate came to the door to get him for football practice. Jack started his usual ferocious barking and lunging. My daughter called me, and I came as soon as I could, got a hold of Jack's collar, moved him to the living room, and put him in a sit /stay. The kids left and at that point, while he was calm and sitting in front of me, my DD walked up to him and shouted at him "Bad dog!" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He was reprimanded angrily at a moment when he was doing what he was supposed to be doing. This is what I'm up against. I have tried to explain to my DD why this can't happen, and that it will work against us ever stopping the behavior, but she is irrational about this and will not listen to reason. She is afraid he is going to bite a kid. I cannot sit in the hallway 24/7 in case someone comes to door when I'm not prepared. Everyone knows they must not open the door until I have control of Jack, but she is afraid a child will just walk in without being invited.

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

Oh Karen, this would make me sincerely crazy. I have a particular pet peeve about the use of the term "bad dog" in the FIRST place so it would all be downhill from that point. No one has ever called Tara "BAD" and I would probably rip their face off if they did!!! Deep breath...calming down now... I'm just going to throw out some ideas (not knowing your house layout or family dynamic) and see if anything is a "fit".

Is it feasible for JD to stay in the office with you, expecially during high traffic times? I don't know how far your office is from the entry but could he be on a long line in the house (just during this training phase) so that DD could redirect him using the line or you could get control of him faster? It could be a light weight loose line so he could still move about and wouldn't feel tethered all the time. Or I suppose during high risk times of the day (unexpected visitor times) he could be on the long rope with it tied somewhere in the office so he can't get to the entry or you can accompany him to the entry for practice and he would already be under your control.

Can you keep the door locked(deadbolt or slid bolt on the inside?) so that no one can walk in unexpectedly or put up a sign or use some other method to control what is happening at the door as far as people walking in unexpectedly for now? I would guess that DD's fear of him biting is just heightening JD's emotional response in that scenario. So anything that can be done to calm her fear would be helpful. Is she involved or willing to be involved with his training? Or do you want her involved? It sounds like she is feeling out of control in this situation at the door and it is coming out as anger directed at JD. Is there anyway to make her feel safer and more in control in this situation? That was one of my thoughts behind the idea of the loose line.


The problem is with her but since she is so unwilling to change then it falls to you and JD to work around her issues which may require looking at things with a different perspective. I'm still thinking..

[F, Calla & Luca]

I am wondering why "bad dog"is so upsetting for you. Oh course, in the above example it was late and out of context so it was an incorrect and unhelpful term. With children we try to distinguish between doing a bad thing and being bad. I don't think dogs are that reflective not do they contemplate their inherent character. If my dogs do something in front of me and in the moment I do say "Bad Dog" They know it means their immediate action was unacceptable. On the other hand I use "good dog" constantly for especially good behavior and for no reason at all, and rarely say bad dog.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It wasn't the "bad dog" that upset me; it was the timing. Had she yelled "bad dog" while he was barking and lunging, it would have been okay...not what I would prefer, but not detrimental, because the reprimand would have been marking an undesirable behavior, and he could have associated it with that. Instead, he was scolded at a moment when he should have been praised, because at that moment he was behaving correctly. He has no way of associating the "Bad dog!" with his behavior at the door, he would associate it with what he was doing at the moment it was shouted, which was sitting quietly and calmly. Very confusing for him. "I obeyed my mom and got yelled at?"
He'll never be able to choose the correct behavior if he gets that kind of message.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I understood your reaction, I was wondering about Ricki's. I agree with what you said. I guess I'm saying it doesn't really matter what the exact words of the reprimand are, it's mostly the timing and context.

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

Like I said it is a pet peeve-meaning it is more annoying for me than for most people. I'll have to think about why that is so. Because you are correct in regard to dogs it is the tone that they understand more than the words. So it is definitely a "me" issue. I remember hearing once that "there are no bad dogs, only bad owners". Maybe I see it as a reflection on me?