Help with the 'Stay' Command

[Jamie Petro]

Wrigley and I really need help on this one. If I tell Wrigley to sit or put her in a down position and tell her to stay, as long as I don't move, she will stay for a long time. I can even take 2 steps, but EVERY time I take that 3rd step she pops up. I've tried starting over and just taking 2 steps and staying there for a long time, and she's fine, but as soon as I try to move further she breaks the stay. This is the only command that we really have problems with, and that's a problem b/c so many other commands hinge on this one. I hope I'm not the only one who has or has had problems with this. One other thing, how do I keep her when in a sit stay from going into a down stay? This may be something I need to worry about later down the road, I'm not sure. I don't want to get discouraged b/c I know she can do this! Please tell me there is a trick or method I can use.

[Ron Carnes]

I think yoiu need to take take Wrigley immediatly back to the same spot and put him in the same position. Wrigley will soon catch on. The down stay is the best stay command since it is so submissive.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

For me with Guinness it just took time and lots of repetition. I wish I had an "easy answer" for this, but I don't. I just kept walking farther and farther away. When he broke his stay, I went back and repositioned him....over and over and over. Every time I got a little farther until I was eventually out of the room. Guinness was motivated by praise and treats, so I varied his rewards for stay. Sometimes there was a treat, and other times just a pat and "good boy". I found with Guinness I got better results if I didn't look at him during his stay. I'm not sure exactly why, but he was always more likely to break it when I was looking at him. Once I got to the point where I could actually get out of the room with him still holding his stay position, we started introducing the distractions. Another thing that my trainer taught me with Guinness is that while they're still in the stage where they're staying while you take a few steps away....walk all around them while they're sitting/or laying there. I think Ricki may have some great suggestions....her Tara will stay even with ping pong balls tossed around her. I find that one pretty amazing!

[Adina P]

How long can she hold her stay with you 0-2 feet away?
Do you use treats and how/when does she get the treats for stay?
Do you use a release word?

[Jamie Petro]

She can hold her stay for a minute and a half to two minutes with me two feet away. I use treats, and I vary the kind that I give her. She seems to love all kinds. I've been using "Ok" for my release word, and I've been using it when I'm still 2 feet away. Thanks for all of the input.

[Adina P]

Well that's a pretty good length of time for you being 2 feet away. Some ideas and questions:

1) Does it matter what DIRECTION you move away from her? Is it the same if you move 2 feet straight ahead, diagonally left/right, to the side of her, and to the back of her? Perhaps changing direction one step away may help.

2) Do you stare at her the whole time?

3) WHEN do you give her the treats. In other words between "Wrigley Stay" and "OK" where do treats come in?

4) Try not releasing her until you come back to her or she'll anticipate it. Instead return to her side before releasing her.

[Kyoko]

Great idea... Charlie has difficulty staying if she can't see me. she would want to trun around and look at me. In this case, I try shorten the time frame and distance and work my way up.....

[BG and Gavin]

Do you use a hand signal - for me the hand signal (stop sign in front of his nose) is more powerful than the verbal. Plus I can reinfornce it by holding up the stop sign as I walk away or from across the room without the "excitement" of hearing my voice.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I did run into one problem with the stay hand signal. I used it with Guinness at the beginning of his stay training too, and it really seemed to help. I did have to wean him from it to only the verbal command though when I got to the point of leaving the room. I had to actually have him in a stay and leave for five minutes for his TDI certification. Because he was thinking that he had to stay while my hand was in that position, once I was out of the room and he could no longer see my hand, he immediately broke. With Murph I'm giving the verbal command with the hand signal, but leaving my hand in that position only for a few seconds. As I walk away, I'm no longer giving the signal. That way if this guy ever does make it to Therapy training, I won't have to "retrain" the stay.

[BG and Gavin]

Yes, that's right, I don't keep the hand up, just flash the sign again to reinforce.

[Jamie Petro]

I also use the stop sign hand signal. I don't think she has seperation anxiety b/c we don't have problems when we leave home, BUT she seems anxious as soon as she sees the stop sign signal or hears me say "stay". Maybe it's b/c this is the first command she hasn't picked up quickly.

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

Since she is learning so many other commands without a problem I have to question if she is understanding what you are asking of her!? Do you use treats in training? If you do use them I would start by giving her the down and stay commands, take ONE step back and then immediately step back to her and treat (HIGH value treat) her so she can start succeeding. Repeat a few times and then go to two steps back, same process. Keep repeating until she understands that she will get the treat when she stays. THEN try that ill fated THIRD step!!! BIG party if she stays on the third step!!!! Of course if you don't use treats or she is not food motivated than the treating part is not valid :( Maybe she just needs a 'party" or loves rather than a treat. The main thing really is repetition. Once you find a system that she seems to "get" even a little, then just keep repeating it over and over and over... and then more.

I used to train Tara with a leash on her, even in the house, because it was easier to reposition her or redirect her if needed. This might be helpful if you need to return her to her original position. Of course if she associates her leash with walking it could make things worse so keep that in mind! :) I use a hand signal with verbal too but we try to only give a command ONCE. We don't want her to learn that she needs to "stay" after we say "stay" FIVE times! LOL! We want her to learn that we say it once and she does it. So I don't recommend repeating the command as you move farther away but that it just my opinion. What I mean is whether I am moving out one step or 10 steps I only say it once. I also use the marker word "good" so Tara immediately knows that what she did is what I wanted her to do. When she hears "good" than she knows that she will get a love or a treat shortly after. It is similar to using a clicker but you use a word instead. In the case of stay I would give the command, walk out, return to her, say good and give her a treat or loves.

I have read that the "sit" is not a particularly comfortable position for a dog ( I don't know if that is true or not) and that standing or laying down are more natural and comfortable. I taught Tara the down/stay first and after she understood the "stay" part, I started using the stay with sit. Which is probably totally backwards but it worked for me :) Also most of our flooring is hardwood and it really is hard for her to "sit and stay" on it because her feet keep sliding out. So we try to be conscious of that type of thing at home and in stores or other areas too.

[Jamie Petro]

So many good suggestions Ricki. I have some questions. Do you go back to Tara and release her by saying Good, or do you say it from wherever you may be in the house? I've been saying "Ok" from 2 feet out, but I read where Victoria Stillwell said to always go back to the dog. When you say that you used a leash, would this only be to redirect her or to also hold her in place while saying stay? I don't mean to sound like I'd force her, I'm just trying to get a clear picture.