loose leash

[Stacy Deitrich]

Hi everyone, I've really been working with Rosie lately on walking on a loose leash.  Rosie has caught on to most trainings right away... but, this one is really a challenge for both of us.  I do have her in obedience class and that is helping.  But, I'm hoping to get some tips from you all.  What is your best bit of advice to teaching my 9 mo old to walk on a loose leash?  Thanks in advance!

Stacy & Rosie

[Anne G.]

I had the same situation with Murphy. She has been very easy to train except this one area, but all of a sudden this month she finally seems to have gotten it! She is 10 1/2 months old. Hopefully Rosie will have the same "revelation".

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Here's a prior discussion that might help...

http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/heeling-and-loose-leash?gr...

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Can you tell us a little about the training method you're using in class?  What type of collar are you using, and do you give any corrections or is your training treat based?  It will help to know that so your "loose leash" training can be consistent with your other training methods.

[Stacy Deitrich]

I have a plain choker collar.  Nylon, I think.  The trainer wants me to have her walk with her head right by my leg because she is trying to pull to the front.  If she goes out of that spot I'm supposed to give her a "bump" and try to have the leash hang loose as much as possible.  While she is in the correct position she wants me to talk to her and give her a lot of praise.  She does great indoors.  It's when we get outside that it seems to go down hill.  She also told me to stay in our driveway or yard for a long time.  If she started to pull I was to turn and walk the other way.  So, she is starting to get it.  But, I feel like she still wants to be right out in front of me.  I REALLY want her to jog (I jog slow, my jog is a fast walk for her) with me and it seems like the faster we move the more she wants to pull.  But, she REALLY needs the excercise right now.  She has always been pretty mellow and laid back.  Not chewing things up or anything, unitl recently.  Trainer said she thought she needed excercise.  So, I feel kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Well I think for now the exercise is one thing...and the leash training is another.  Can you get her exercise by taking her outside and having her fetch a tennis ball?  Do you have a treadmill....that works wonders for me.  I think once you have her trained to walk right by your side, you can then introduce the running.  Running generates excitement and I think it would be very difficult for a dog at her stage of training to focus on the correct position.  I spent quite a while heel training Murph in the driveway and parking lots.  He has a fantastic heel now (unless he sees another dog and then it's quite a challenge...that's a whole different thing).  I think turning and running in the opposite direction when she moves out ahead of you is a good approach, but you have to do it consistently....on the choke collar it should give her a "correction" if it's done quickly enough.  "Bumping" her when she's out of position seems like it would be tough to do and still have serve as a consistent and motivational correction.  Have you practiced in class giving actual "leash pop" corrections?  Praising her when she's in the correct position also seems like the right thing...I'd avoid too much talking though...again that can create excitement that results in a loss of focus.

[Carol Brand]

Stacy, 9 months old is too young for sustained jogging especially with Doodles who are prone to elbow and hip issues.  If you are looking to burn off some energy, what about playing frisbee or fetch in the park? 

All of the things you are doing are right.  They are exactly what I do when I am leash training.  I do question the "stay in your driveway" advice.  I like to get out and encounter as many distractions as possibly because those are learning opportunities. 

Have you considered stepping up to a prong collar?  If you are giving her a bump on the lead and she is not backing off right away, then the nylon choker may not be giving her enough correction.  Also, make sure that you are making LEFT HAND TURNS.  I found that dogs will work hard to avoid getting bumped into and stepped on. 

[Stacy Deitrich]

Hi Carol, trust me... my jog is really only a fast walk for her.  And, I'm working closely with my vet with jogging her.  Since I want to train her to jog with me it's improtant that she know how to do this without jumping in front of me and causing me to break my leg!  ;)  When I do jog her we don't do long distance continual jogging yet.  We just do some jogging spurts on our walks. 

As far as other excercise....  it's winter in Michigan!  Though, today is beautiful!  And, I can get Rosie to chase after a ball or frisbee but she won't return it, unless we are in the house.  lol  Don't know what that is all about! 

[Carol Brand]

The retrieve needs to be trained.  Working on a solid retrieve will also help you in all aspects of your training.  A Doodle that won't bring back the toy is a Doodle who is working to please itself.  It is really important in a dog that is a mix of Poodle and Retriever to help the dog to understand that its real job is to work for and with its person. If she won't bring the toy back to you, try having her retrieve on a long line so that you can reel her in and then PRAISE PRAISE PRAISE her when she brings it back to you.  If she continually drops it mid retrieve, then you need to teach a full formal retrieve.  The book Competition Obedience: A Balancing Act has a good chapter on how to do this. 

[Stacy Deitrich]

great!  thanks!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I taught retrieve on the long line....it worked like a charm. 

[Adina P]

Remember ALL dogs are 'great indoors' -- that's just how it is.  Make the environment super boring and uninteresting and it will be most fun to do training.  That's the challenge...to get a dog trained to respond even when more 'fun' things are happening they'd rather get involved in.  So like Carol, said your job is to work her around distractions.  The only time you want NO distraction is when you are teaching something new and all you want is for her to understand a command and how to do it.  Once you are sure a dog understands what 'stay' means then it's time to bust out the distractions.  It really helps if at first you go seeking those distractions on purpose.  Don't just show up somewhere where you have NO idea what kinds of things will cross your path.  Set things up so you know FOR SURE that when you get to a certain spot in the park you will encounter X, when you get to a corner of your yard you have placed a bouncing ball, or whatever.  Once she starts to view distractions as a reason to pay closer attention (because if she doesn't she gets an undesireable consequence) then you can use the whole wide world and its surprises.

Also mental exercise can tire a dog out pretty well.  So perhaps do 20 min of training in the morning and 20 min in the afternoon and really challenge her little brain.  But don't JUST go walking for the full 20 min...that's way boring and the dog starts to lose focus.  Break it up with some sits, recalls, stays, downs...if she's learned these so far.  Keep her mind engaged.  It sounds, though, like the loose leash walk your trainer is having you do is really closer to a 'heel'.  IF so then you might as well teach heel and have a command in place. 

I also agree with Carol's advice to turn and bump into her. Be prepared to possibly trip on her though so do it on grass if possible.  If a dog is crowding me I turn left into that dog and keep walking.  But I almost NEVER start training on sidewalks.  I almost always start training in a large open field so I can change direction at any time without ending up in someone's lawn or on the street.

Is there a reason you went with a nylon choke collar vs. a metal one?  Is the collar and leash one item?  What kind of leash do you have?  When you say "bump" her as the trainer recommended...do you mean what Carol and I were saying...you physically run into her as you turn?  Or do you mean that you pop the collar and that is a 'bump'?

I don't think you can do a 'turn and run' at this point--not if you are holding on to the collar up close to keep her close to your leg. 

Oh yes and if you STILL think she needs physical exercise, then just get a harness or a no-pull gadget and use a different command and go on a speed walk. 

[Stacy Deitrich]

Thank you so much for taking the time to give me this info!  I really appreciate it!  ok...  I LOVE the idea of mental training!  Rosie does amazingly well with sit, down stay, etc... EVEN when we are outside on walks.  And, I need to have my kids helps me create distractions on our short walks. (up and down our street)

I'm confused as to what the difference is between a "heel" and a loose leash walk.  The trainer said the reason she was pulling was because I had her too far in front of me.  I really don't care where she stands.  Just as long as she doesn't pull me.  Also, if one day she is to pass her CGC isn't she supposed to stay in a certain spot?  Also, it isn't so much that she is dragging me around anymore.  It's trying to get her to stay in that spot by my side.  And, I can see what the trainer is saying.  If I let her out front then she doesn't stop going... she keeps speeding up.  So, our walks are full of corrections.

I have the nylon collar because they gave that to us at 4H.  So, we just stuck with it.  It's a 6 foot leash and seperate collar.  I should say "pop" rather than bump.

What do you mean by harness or no pull gadget?  Thanks again!

We do a lot of turns in class and she does well with that.  I'll try it more on our walks.