Neighbor's Dogs

[Kerry L]

I am looking for some advice here....

Last July we bought a new house with 3 awesome acres of land. The land was one of the reasons we purchased the house; so we could play outside with our doodle, Hank (now 2.5 years old) and our daughter (now 18 months old) and we are also expecting another baby in September. We are in the country and our only neighbor's are right next to us. When we first moved they had 2 dogs (Boston Terriers), one male (Vader) and one female (Chewy). They have an underground fence so the dogs never came over but they barked non-stop. Whenever Hank was outside they would bark like crazy, Hank seemed uninterested and pretty much ignored them. When we'd go for walks, they go crazy and run back and forth while we passed. Vader seemed to be getting more and more aggressive so they decided to get another dog to distract Vader and Chewy! (I should mention that our neighbors are vets and own an animal clinic so I thought maybe, they had some knowledge that I was unaware of.) When they mentioned getting a new dog to me, my first thought was "Isn't this going to just encourage a pack-mentality behavior?" but I'm not an expert. They got the dog, this one is some kind of weiner dog mix that they named Jowa (male). Predictably, this didn't help and only added one more dog that barks to the mix.

Well winter came and we are in Wisconsin so they let their dogs out less because of the frigid temps. It was quiet most of the winter. Now, it's spring here....and the issues have intensified! Vader seems to be really aggressive now. He's ran thru the underground fence and comes of over, chases our Hank and nips at him. He's corned Hank on our deck a couple times and barks in his face and nips/bites at him. He's never hurt Hank but Hank is also 80 pounds vs Vaders 10-15 pounds. We've chased Vader off but he's as agile as a squirrel, thus nearly impossible to catch and take back to his home.  All 3 dogs sit on the lot line and bark at our house non stop. We will be inside eating dinner and they just sit and bark at our house. Their bark is a pitch pierces your ears! Annoying.

Then last Friday, I was taking Hank and my daughter for a walk and the two other dogs, Chewy and Jowa, came running out from the house when we were walking past. They both chased Hank and were more aggressive than I've ever seen any of the dogs! Hank tried running but finally just layed down with his head hung and both dogs jumped on him, nipping at him. Of course, I was trying to get the dogs off of him, my daughter was screaming then I got tripped and scrapped my knee pretty good. It was complete chaos and the whole time the neighbor were inside. Hank never tried to defend himself, he's such a gentle giant. I felt so bad for him.

Monday, I called the neighbors and filled them in on all the issues with the dogs. The barking, the attacks, everything. He was VERY apologetic and suggested we get the dogs together (one at a time) on lease to 'meet' and 'get everything out' and see if that helps. Will this help? It seems like Hank has already put up with enough, why should he be subjected to more abuse by their dogs?? I feel like their dogs will just bark and go crazy and lunge at Hank if they are on leash. Any suggestions on other solutions?

My main concerns are: Will Hank eventually take enough and snap at one of the dogs? He's WAY bigger than them and he could serisously hurt them/kill them. Will all of this make Hank defensive with other dogs? And my BIGGEST concern is if my daughter gets hurt when one of them comes over again! Help, I'm open to suggestions! The neighbors are showing effort but are clearly at a loss for any real solution.

[Laura and Angus]

Well it's good to hear they're willing to work with you. And AH! So terrible you had to FALL being pregnant for them to pay attention to their dogs' problems :(  Thankfully it wasn't worse, but it seems to be escalating, so it's good they're getting on it now.

They just need to get a trainer to their house to see the dogs and work with them regularly - and I think that needs to happen BEFORE a planned meeting with your dog. A trainer would work with the fear/aggressive behaviors before they reach such a heightened state (e.g. inside the house when your dog is outside) and then slowly move to outside, but still controlled (e.g. on a leash while your dog is on the other side of your yard)...etc. Furthermore, they'll probably have to identify, which dog is kind of instigating the "attacks" or barking and work with that dog first - based on what you said "Vader" was displaying aggression and they didn't deal with that issue head-on, so I think they need to get working with that dog immediately. like you said - the pack mentality did not help because if Vader indicated that Hank was a threat, now the whole crew seems to think this is the case. A trainer should help them extinguish the aggressive behaviors and THEN you could do some exercises with a trainer present to reinforce their dogs' calm behaviors around Hank. 

This is how we've worked with trainers in terms of discouraging inappropriate behaviors and encouraging appropriate responses. It takes lots of practice and usually weeks of consistent work with reinforcement/rewards for calm behaviors, but it's effective. 

[Kerry L]

I have a hard time believing they will put this much effort into this and that's what is disappointing. Vader is definitely the Instigator!  I'm going to talk to them again about taking a different course of action. At this point, a fence seems to be the best option.

Thank you for all of your input!

[Laura and Angus]

I would too :( Good luck with everything!! A fence would certainly give you the security/safety you're looking for then. 

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I would not participate in a meet and greet without an experienced trainer there to manage the interaction.  Clearly these dogs are not "balanced" and they feed off of one another.  Meeting and trying to interact with dogs in this state of mind will only create stress for Hank, and you don't want to expose him to that.  IMO you really don't want him to snap at these dogs...they are already displaying some aggressive behaviors that could get even worse if escalated.  I also think it would take more than a session or two with a trainer to change the dynamic.  It is really unfortunate, but if there is no legal recourse to force the neighbor to keep his dogs out of your yard, I would opt for the physical fence.  It really is disappointing that a vet with a staff trainer at his disposal has not taken steps to address these behaviors in his own "pack".

[Kerry L]

I really don't want to subject Hank to the meet and greet everyone else's apprehention regarding it has reassured me that it's a terrible idea!

Monday night the neighbor was over talking to us about these issues and Vader actually came into the yard and went after Hank! Hank cowered. Her response (she's the vet) was, "I wish Hank would just snap and put Vader in his place." That is the last thing we want! I don't want Hank to develop aggressive tendancies as a result of this situation.

Another thing that I didn't mention: We have cookouts and campfires all summer and most of our friends and family have dogs. We are a dog friendly house and any dogs are welcome but I can't make any promises that any visitor dogs are going to take the abuse from their dogs that Hank does. Sunday my parents were over with their dog and another friend was over with her dog and they did take their dogs in.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I have nothing to add, but I have to say I am shocked and appalled that anyone, let alone a vet, would leave dogs outside when they are not home under any circumstance, let alone in an unfenced yard with an e-fence.

I personally would put up the physical fence.  But then, I also would have called the police when the dogs attacked Hank. 

[Tracey & Spike]

I'd be super concerned too if I were you. In terms of whether or not Hank will snap back at some point in time. I can't say for sure. But I would almost count on it. My Spike grew up with our neighbours yorkie. The yorkie has always been a jerk to Spike. Spike took it all in stride and went submissive and never had an issue. I always removed Spike from the situation when the yorkie became nasty. Just this week we were out in our yard talking to the neighbour in her driveway. Our houses butt together like yours seem too. The yorkie came over and literally viciously snapped and nailed spike right on the nose. When Spike was laying down in his non threatening way. No surprise Spike snapped back. For the first time. The neighbours friend was there who "knows anything and everything about dogs" NOT. And had the audacity to tell me to get a behaviourist for Spike!!! She told me the yorkie was a perfect angle and Spike provoked it. By laying down? On his own lawn??I don't care how much I love my neighbours. And I do. The two will never be together again. I won't do anything to run the risk of it changing Spikes calm behaviour.
If I were in your shoes I think I.... No. I know I would find a way to bite the bullet and put up a solid fence. At least fully closed on your neighbours side and make it a bit more see through on your other sides so you still have your view. I would do this not only for your dog. But for your sanity. And your daughters safety. If your neighbours dogs are passing their fence and leaving their property to come over and snap at and chase hank what will they do when your daughter starts running around? Either with hank or without. It's not a pleasant situation. You have to do what is best for you. It's your safety and happiness you need to be concerned with. Not your neighbours. Keep us posted!

[Kerry L]

ugh, you've voiced my feelings exactly!!! I know that if Hank does ever snap and hurt one of their dogs, Hank will seem like the Jerk because he's the bigger dog.

Thank you for input and sharing your experience. It sounds like we are living mirrored situations. I am going to tell them we aren't will to do a meet and greet and hopefully we can move forward with the fence. I don't want to risk my daughter getting attacked or Hank taking anymore crap.

[Laura and Angus]

I'd get the fence too, frankly. I have found that too many people aren't willing to put in the time and effort that training or extinguishing aggressive behaviors takes.I just wouldn't trust they'd make it happen since they seem to have poor understanding of animal behavior/training - why didn't they just get a trainer as soon as their dog starting showing aggression?

[Marybeth & Yankee]

If they come onto your property again you have every right to call animal control and let them handle the problem.

[Gail and Bailey]

Fence, fence, fence!! Keep your daughter, your new baby to be, and Hank safe behind a solid barrier!
Peace of mind is knowing your precious ones are safe!

[Lori, Rooney & Zuzu]

I have no idea what the very best solution is but I really feel for you. This sounds like a rotten situation. I agree that a fence seems the optimal solution and your neighbors should understand that if they can't control their dogs, or keep them inside except when supervised, then what choice do you have? Also, everything I've read about persistent barkers the first line of defense is to take away as much of their visual stimulus as possible. The habit of barking is so ingrained in these dogs now that I'm not sure what could curb it other than taking away their sight lines to the outside world. 

I'd be very concerned about an aggressive dog like that with small children. 

I really hope you are able to work something out that gives you some peace of mind.