Pack Mentality - need help

[Sue & Lily Grace]

I have been MIA for many months but I knew I could get some help here. Lily Grace is a sweet smart medium Labradoodle that just turned 15 months old She is testing again for her CGC in two weeks. A seven months she did not pass and running her through intermediate and then CGC class again, we are going to try again.

Lily Grace has just developed a bad behavior. When she is with a dog that she knows (neighbors and I have stopped to talk) and another dog walks by, she has started barking and lunging at that passer-by. It is a bark saying stay away, this dog is mine. I am at a loss on how to stop it. I have put her in a sit and tried to turn her away but so far this has not helped calm her down. It is random so I have not been good at anticipating when she will react this way. She meets other dogs well, one on one or even two or three on one. It is her reaction to a outsider when she finds herself with a "pack". Any suggestions will be appreciated. This is bad timing as her test is coming soon.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

JD has recently developed a "pack mentality", too. In the past year, we have started walking with a friend and her two dogs. If one barks at another dog, all start barking and it escalates. It really surprised me, because while JD can be reactive to certain dogs when he is on-leash, he never acts that way when the other dog is a dog he "knows", if we are walking alone. But when he is walking with the pack, he will bark reactively even at his best and oldest friend, if one of the other pack members does. So I will be watching the suggestions here. 

[Sue & Lily Grace]

You know, Karen, This is hard. I have been walking away from everyone tugging Lily Grace with me. But this is not a solution, it is just avoidance and then she will think that she made the other dog go away. Like JD she never does it when meeting a dog alone.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It's really interesting. One of the two dogs we have been walking with is a small older female who does not like other dogs as a rule, and is not good with them. (My friend's adult son moved out of state and she got the dog.) At first we couldn't walk with them at all, if JD came near her, she went ballistic. Then we started all walking at the same time, same route, but with JD and I staying several feet ahead or behind, or sometimes even on the opposite side of the street. Gradually, we moved closer and closer until we were all walking together as a pack. Now this dog totally accepts JD and they can walk together side-by-side with no problems. Pack mentality is frustrating, but fascinating, too. 

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Ned NEVER barks or growls when he is by himself, but he  does when he is with the rest of our pack.  He is definitely our pack leader.  We have resorted to bark collars for he and Clancy to wear when we are in our RV and sometimes at home when neighbors are having a party or the dog on the hill behind us, looms and barks at them.   The bark collars have a calming effect on the doodles and when wearing them, they don't get excited about people or dogs at all.  Walking is rarely an issue for us though.

[Sue & Lily Grace]

Nancy, the weird thing is Lily Grace does not bark or try to protect the apartment even when other dogs are around and barking. She is not possessive with me, her food, or her toys or when we are walking. It is only when we stop to talk to another person with a dog that she knows and another dog walks past her sight line. It is so frustrating because if I let her meet the other dog she would be as calm as can be and want to play. I am stumped.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Sue, I'll ask Ben when I see him on Tuesday, but here's my thought.  Walking dogs together does make them feel "comfortable....like they belong together".  That's why when you visited with Lily we walked them all together first and it worked really well.  Once they have formed this "pack" association they will resort to "pack like" behavior which includes barking and "carrying on" when the spot something or someone who doesn't belong to warn the leader of potential danger.  I think Ben would say that is when the real "leader" (the human) needs to convey to the dogs that they've got control of the situation.  That means starting with a verbal correction (VERY CALMLY...real leaders are always calm).  Then if it doesn't stop turn the dog so that you are facing the "intruder" but the dog isn't and refocus her on you.  This is a good place for high value treats.  Stay like that until the other dog is out of sight.  The problem with all this is that it is difficult to execute when you're talking with someone....you need to be focused to make it work.

[Sue & Lily Grace]

Thanks Jane, it has become a big problem because of where I now live. We have met so many people with dogs that use the Riverwalk on a daily basis. Lily Grace is always polite when we stop and talk but I am starting to dread it because of her behavior when another dog walks past. This behavior is taking this joy from both of us. Would love to hear what Ben says. He talks dog.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I think for now, you are going to have to keep moving and not stop to talk. I'm far from an expert on this, but until Ben gives you his feedback, that seems like the best thing to do. 

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Okay, I talked to Ben.  He said that he can't tell WHY Lily is acting this way in this situation unless he can actually observe her (and he will come and help if you fly him to FL...LOL), but the thing that's important is that it really doesn't matter WHY.  What matters is how you respond.  She needs you to show her what you are expecting of her in this situation....specifically what you WANT her to do instead of what she's doing now.  I can't remember what type of leash you use when you walk Lily, he thought a Gentle Leader would probably be the best tool for working with this.  You still can teach her what you expect even if you're only using a flat collar.  So whenever you stop to talk Lily must be in a sit.....and you must insist that she stay in this sit the whole time you are stopped.  Just pull up on the collar and push down on her butt if she doesn't respond to the command immediately....calmly.  Each time she breaks the sit correct (leash or verbal depending on what lead you are using)...the key is to stay calm and be persistent.  She must ALWAYS be required to stay in the sit when you are stopped.  Then if another dog passes and she starts to react your alternate behavior is that she is still required to be sitting....she can bark if she wants (although she probably won't) but she has to stay sitting.  You may need to "place" her over and over but she will eventually learn that this is what is expected.  You can absolutely use treats during this exercise....eventually she'll associate the praise and treats for sitting in this context. 

[Sue & Lily Grace]

Jane, thank you for talking to Ben. He is so good with my favorite big Doodle that I would seriously think about sending him a ticket. Let's hope I can correct the behavior before I have to bring him down for a winter vacation. Ben makes a lot of sense and my course of action will be keeping her in a sit instead of trying to stop her from barking or dragging her away from the situation. I know my reaction is more than a little bit of embarrassment because of her bad behavior. Ben is right, you have to train the owner first.

Have a wonderful Thanksgiving with your family. Prayers that all are feeling better. Give Dave my best.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

I didn't know this would be Ben's advice, but it is exactly what I do when I walk my guys and I see another dog or person coming that I think one of them (NED) might have a growl encounter with. I make them sit and we calmly watch until the people pass us by - usually with their little yappy dog lunging and snarling on their extend-a-leash. It isn't quite the same encounters you are describing but they are encounters.  I don't give treats during this time, just praise as we watch the 'parade' go by.  We have been doing this for over a year and it has worked for us every time so far.

[Sue & Lily Grace]

Come Friday morning, when we get back to our normal routine, we are going to do the sit and wait drill. I am packing my pockets with treats to break through if Lily Grace gets to the zone I do not like.

Wishing everyone a wonderful blessed Thanksgiving.