Teaching Doodle Trick

[Renu & Theo]

Tried to search around but not sure this is a repeat question, if it is sorry in advance :)

Now that my little Theo is 4 months I am trying to understand different stages of doodle training, basic training, intermiddiate/advanced, fun tricks....?

my understanding is basic training include minimum of below commands

• No
• Sit
• Down
• Stand Up
• Leave it
• Go to Crate
• Stay or wait
• Quiet

Do we i need to take certification for this basic training?

Also I am wondering whats are fun tricks we can teach doodles or things doodles cannot do as a breed

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

"Leave it" means don't put it in your mouth or even smell it...."drop it" means the dog already has the item in the mouth and now you are telling them to let it go.

[Jay, Lola and Colonel Esau]

Ah - that makes sense.  I use "leave it" for what you call "drop it".  For what you call "leave it" I just make a certain noise, like a mother or grandmother, for lack of a better description.  I guess I never thought about that as an obedience behavior as much as just part of general manners.  Does the trick - but maybe that is yet another of the things training-wise that I do differently from most people.  :)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I can tell you that JD would probably be at the Bridge if he didn't have a solid "leave it" command. We have encountered everything from dead animals and rotting meat to pools of anti-freeze on our neighborhood walks. Fortunately, we don't have poisonous snakes or toads in this area, but for those who do, a solid "leave it" is mandatory. And if your dog gets hold of a chicken bone, same thing for "drop it". Much more than just manners.  

[Jay, Lola and Colonel Esau]

Maybe "basic manners" isn't the best way to say it.  Obviously the dog has to know that it is mandatory, and that has to be reliable.  What I mean is that for something like that, where all you want is for the dog not to do something, you don't need to go through all the steps you would use for shaping a new obedience behavior, putting on cue and proofing.  All you need is a positive punishment and proper timing.

I start by teaching markers for positive with release, positive but keep going and negative.  Actually there are varying degrees of negative - the one that eventually goes with "don't touch that" is the strongest.  In operant conditioning terms, that marker starts as negative punishment but quickly becomes positive punishment because the dog does not like the way it feels to have something it wants withheld.  If the thing you want the dog to stay away from is really, really tempting, you could add an even stronger positive punishment - such as the way ecollars are used in rattlesnake avoidance training.  With Lola I have never found that to be necessary.  The verbal marker, properly conditioned, is more than good enough.

Now that I think about it, there is some overlap to what I call "leave it", though.  I teach that by getting the dog interested in a piece of food and using positive reinforcement, paying when the dog focuses on something else.  Gradually you increase the timing and attractiveness of the thing you want the dog to leave, and eventually it becomes something the dog is actually holding in its mouth.

Another way to do it would be to start by teaching the dog the concept of holding something and not biting it, like you would for a hunting dog learning to retrieve.  You start with a completely new object, like a dumbbell and then transition to objects like balls. 

Still I think the positive punishment approach is best because (1) it's critical that the dog do what you want (positive punishments are the fastest and least susceptible to extinction), and (2) style doesn't matter (it's not like the obedience behaviors I was talking about where you want the dog to look happy about doing it - you just care that it does it).

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm from the olden days, lol. All this "shaping", "cues", "proofing", etc. is completely lost on me. I don't read or study training theories, and the positive/negative punishment/reinforcement stuff is also lost on me. However, I somehow managed to train all of my dogs to be pleasant to live with and to obey commands well enough to keep them safe, and they all still liked me. (I have never used any kind of shock device.) For me, I think it's about knowing and understanding dogs, and from there you figure out what works best for your particular dog and your particular situation, getting help from qualified professionals as needed. Kind of like raising kids. :-)

[Jay, Lola and Colonel Esau]

You are so right.  We have so much more information now, sometimes I wonder if it is just overkill.  We're so worried about cell phones and car seats and time outs and everything else I wonder if something it takes away from our appreciating the simple pleasure of the time we have with those loved ones - canine or human.  I remember when I got my first dog, Serendipity.  I was 12 and used to make my mom drop me off at the training classes and then wait in the car until we were done.  I had one book called "How to Train Your Dog", and that was pretty much all I knew.  I remember begging my parents to buy Eukanuba and explaining that even though it was more expensive it was better for her than the grocery store brand.  LOL, times have changed (and will keep on changing)!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I think "whatever works" for you and your dog is the way to go. 

[Jay, Lola and Colonel Esau]

Absolutely.  And I like that you said "and your dog".  It's not just about making them do whatever you want.  

[Renu & Theo]

I do the same too , leave it is after he pick up something and if i want him not to touch of pick up i will make the sound of say no.

So far he is knows basic commands  except come back when called ( this he has his on mind if he want to come or not ) which i am working on now . Also as everybody pointed out when there are distractions he still need to continue to listen, that is in work by taking  to parks or friend places

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I think trick training can be fun for you and the dog and it does help the dog to learn to stay focused on you.  It's "nice" training, but to me the basic obedience commands are not optional since they keep the dog safe and give you necessary control.  I agree with Adina....sit, stay, down, come and heel are the key commands.  I think four months is the perfect time to start with some obedience work.  Good luck.

[Jen W]

I think trick training can help forge the bond between dog and owner and help dogs focus, but at my school, the dogs must already have the basics down before they can enroll in the tricks class.

I think coming when called is the most important command. If your dog is headed toward a busy road or another dangerous situation, you want to know they will turn on a dime and come back to you when called.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I think this is a good discussion that applies to some of what we are talking about here:

The Bigger Picture