Training methodologies

[Judith and Addie]

I came across an article discussing the training techniques of Cesar Millan and Ian Dunbar. Hopefilly, Ian Dunbar's name is as familiar as Millan's. I thought this group might be interested.

http://beyondcesarmillan.weebly.com/dogs-in-danger.html

[BG and Gavin]

I think you see what you are looking for sometimes.  I have read Cesar's Way, and several things from Ian Dunbar, Stanley Coren, Brad Pattison and several others.  I have read the criticisms of Cesar and just don't see what others are seeing.  I totally buy into the exercise, discipline, affection thing and that you should be a calm assertive leader.  I have seen that in real life time and time again  -- people that are very weak with their dogs or don't give their dogs boundaries end up with problem behaviours.  I think that for the average dog, your goal is to teach him what you want from him and that involves rewards as well as consequences (if you get on the couch without permission, I will take you buy the collar and assist you back down to the floor).  I have given "leash pops" in order to get my dog to refocus on me instead of bolting towards the dog across the street.  I also tell him he is a good boy when he complies.  To me that is the clearest ways to let them know what behaviour you want.  I do not go for pinning etc, but in the old days I did confine my dog to remove him from a situation where he was not in control of himself (a consequence).  Some dogs are softer or easier to train than others so I do not think one size fits all.  My happy go lucky guy did not respond much to treats and using toys got him too excited but he is naturally a follower so has responded well to human leadership.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I so agree, BG. There is no such thing as "one size fits all" when it comes to training. 

[Susan & Randy's Kate]

I agree.  The piece was obviously bias.  I didn't use corporal punishment on my kids but I see nothing wrong with Cesar's techniques.  It may not be for every person because you do have to be the boss.  I see no fear in the dogs.  I have watched probably every episode plus his tapes and he uses different techniques on each dog.  He works slowly with dogs when a slow method is required.  Some dogs are higher in the pack, I know, I have had them.

We adopted a puggle at 11 weeks.  Finn had not been around people and had always been around his brother's.  When holding him he would lean back like a baby does when they fear a stranger.  I sat on the floor and hand fed him four times a day for 2.5 weeks.  One day he came over to me to be petted and I knew it was going to be alright.  

Dunbars behavioralist credentials is probably the only thing that pertains to his methods.  I have a biology and chemistry degree and I think people discount life training.  Anyway, it is a big field and room for different methods that suit the owner and the dog.  

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I have been watching the new Cesar 911 series, and I too find it difficult to see why people disagree so strongly with his methods.  I have yet to see him abuse a dog.  He has actually saved the lives of many dogs who were considered "untrainable".  Mostly I see him work with owners who are clueless about how to relate to their dog.  I do use "reward based" training all the time, so I'm also a fan of that method....when it is appropriate.  To me it's all about showing them what we expect, and reinforcing that with making "good things happen" when they comply and something negative when they don't.  That's how they learn to make the choices that we need them to make.  As for the degree of "something negative", I think that's where the conflict usually lies.  For some dogs, a strong "no" is enough of a verbal queue for the to change a behavior (this works most of the time for my Guinness).  For others a gentle tug on their collar is needed.  For others a stronger (but humane and appropriately executed) collar correction is needed.  And for others (like my Murphy) collar corrections will NOT work when he is in an "out of body state" because of proximity to some other dogs....redirection is always necessary.  So to me it's all about knowing your own dog and how they learn.  I've loved talking all of these readings, and YouTube videos and one-one-one trainer sessions and assimilating them into my own training programs with each of my dogs who learn so differently.  I really do love the balanced approach that "Doggy Dan" uses.  I especially like that he views training broadly...he's  not just "compliance with commands focused" but deals with the whole relationship from the time the dog is a puppy.  So I guess I'm agreeing that it's not as easy as finding one method....implementing it.....and then you dog ends up compliant and balanced.  If only it were that easy.  I've been on this journey for six years, and I've learned so much with Murphy, but the one thing I'm sure of is that it really is all about connection and trust.  It's more that finding a "program"...it's building a bond that is strong that you are able to read one another.  The process is difficult, but the rewards are amazing. 

[BG and Gavin]

Agree Jane, the bond/trust is fundimental.  

[Adina P]

Between Ian Dunbar and Cesar I would choose neither.  Cesar Millan has no obedience titles and I don't like treat training.  It's a false dichotomy.  And while I love science, the only way one of them would 'win' is to pit them against each other by giving them each 5 randomly selected dogs to train and then see the results. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

And I agree with you too, Adina. 

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I agree with this too!