Panacur and Metronidazole

[Robin & Josie]

Hi all -

This isn't exactly a "food" question, but I know I've seen talk of these two drugs in this group.

I brought Josie to the vet today - primarily because it's Friday (and I didn't want to be stuck over the weekend) and I was feeling a little paranoid about her symptoms.

In short, she comes to work with me in senior housing and she was in a women's apartment late yesterday. When she returned her to me, she casually mentioned that she got into her "bin" (she's South African, so I'm not even sure what that meant, but I'm assuming "trash") and "she may have consumed something".

I didn't even think about it again until we got home and she didn't eat her dinner (which I had added pumpkin to because her stools were a bit wet). She's not a big eater but she loves the pumpkin, so this was strange. She was pretty lethargic all evening and drank way more water than I would have expected. Lastly (this is the real paranoid part) - she slept in a strange part of our bedroom, rather than on our bed.

This morning she vomited a little but had a normal poop. She continued to be quite lethargic. One of my residents took her to play fetch and she was totally uninterested. Very odd. 

Then she had a very mushy poop.

So put it all together and I wanted to make sure she hadn't ingested something that was causing all these issues.

They gave her a thorough exam and tested her for PARVO. The vet said it under her breath to the tech. I heard her, of course and said, "Did I hear you say PARVO?? Isn't that fatal? How can she get Parvo? (She turned 2 years in April, by the way).

Vet said she would not ordinarily test for it but they've seen a number of cases lately....Who knew?

Test was negative, thank goodness. As was stool sample.

Nonetheless, they gave me Panacur and Metronidazole and suggested a bland diet (ID, of course, but I passed on that).

I'm thinking about not giving these drugs. I feel like they gave them to me as a precaution without any evidence that she even needs them. Am I remembering correctly that they can totally screw up a dog's system? 

I haven't been here lately, but you guys are always incredibly helpful, so I'm looking for advice. Can't post a question without a picture, so I'm adding that too :)

Thanks in advance,

--Robin and Josie

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

This very confusing. Did you tell the vet about the incident of her getting into someone's garbage and the possibility that she might have eaten something from it? Was there any suggestion of doing an X-ray?

Neither Panacur nor metronidazole would be helpful if she ingested something she shouldn't have. They are antibiotics. Metro is often used to treat diarrhea of an unknown cause, but Josie doesn't only have diarrhea. Her symptoms are inappetance, lethargy, and some vomiting, plus one mushy poop.  

Most parasitic infections do not cause behavioral changes such as lethargy or loss of appetite. 

Panacur is a pretty benign drug, it probably won't help, but it won't hurt either. I would not give the metronidazole without a good reason, and you don't have one so far. 

if the lethargy & inappetance continue, I'd ask for an X-ray. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I would also not allow her to be in strangers' apartments without you. You have no way of knowing what all she's been getting, and many seniors like to "spoil" dogs by giving them people food of all kinds. You also have no way of knowing how well they are supervising what she gets into. Clearly this lady didn't. 

[Robin & Josie]

Thank you for your advice on the meds. I'm sure she would have done an X Ray if she thought it was warranted. I told her the exact same facts as I wrote here. These vets are nothing if not thorough. I usually feel like they're overkill on the tests, but better safe than sorry (Parvo?). If Josie ate anything in that woman's apt, it would have been food that didn't agree with her. She chews things but she never eats them. Just leaves a shredded mess. I never let her go alone to someone's apt when she was younger. If anything, I am overprotective. I don't let her go with just anybody.

Anyway, I do appreciate the metro advice and will avoid it if possible.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

There are also foods that are extremely toxic to dogs. Onions, for one. And more than one DK doodle has ended up in the emergency room with pancreatitis (which is fatal in 50% of cases) from getting hold of fatty foods like pork in the garbage. Jane's Guinness ended up in emergency care for several days with pancreatitis from some unfamiliar treats he got at daycare. he was touch and go for awhile there. 

At any rate, I hope she's okay and the symptoms subside. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

From Jane's discussion on Pancreatitis:

If your dog vomits more than once (sometimes with accompanying diarrhea, but not always), isn't interested in eating, and is listless or not wanting to move or get up....get him to a Vet.  This is what Pancreatitis looks like in its early stages.  The Vet will often be able to determine if it actually is Pancreatitis through a quick blood test which shows elevated pancreatic enzymes.  Catching this early is critical, and repeated vomiting can quickly lead to dehydration.   We got Guinness into the Vet within the first 12 hours and he was already dehydrated.  While you're waiting to get your dog into the Vet be very careful of any food you give him....low fat only, if anything.

Read more here: http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/pancreatitis?groupUrl=heal...

This is why I asked if the vet was aware that she ingested something. A blood test for pancreatic enzymes is not something that's routinely run unless the vet suspects it. 

[Debb, Lucy & Oscar]

I agree with supervising her if she has access to seniors' rooms. My 85 yr old father stayed with us for several weeks after an incident which ended him in the hospital. He would leave Kleenex all over the place within easy access of Lucy (Oscar wasn't yet part of our family then). What is it about tissues/napkins with seniors, anyway?? Both my father and MIL carry them constantly. Only my father left them lying around his room, though. Once I figured it out I made sure his bedroom door was always shut.

I hope there wasn't any medication in that 'bin', and that Josie is back to her usual self real soon.

[Chelsea Sifers]

If for whatever reason you decide to give the metro, I would HIGHLY recommend giving a good quality probiotic (I know Karen has good recommendations for those) at least 3 hours after giving the metro so that the metro doesn't kill the good bacteria in the probiotic as well. My girl did 2 rounds of metro for diarrhea and it just kept up until I came here and got advice from Karen to try the probiotics because the metro had wrecked her poor system. Cleared it right up. About a year later had to do metro again (I REALLY didn't want to) and I gave with the probiotics and had no issues at all after - it works CRAZY well. I continue to give her the probiotics a couple times a week just because they're good for her.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Yep. A good probiotic really does make a huge difference with digestive issues. 

The one I recommend most is Proviable DC for most dogs with loose stool issues, and Proviable KP for more severe cases. 

JD has Inflammatory Bowel Disease, and takes a very powerful human probiotic called VSL#3. When we were trying to reduce his prednisone dosage in the months after his diagnosis, adding the probiotic was what finally allowed us to get the prednisone dosage way down without causing a relapse. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I wouldn't have believed a probiotic could make such a big difference. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Any updates on Josie?

[Robin & Josie]

Thanks for asking. She's totally fine and has been since Saturday. I'm glad I held off on any medications. I wanted to give it 24 hrs to see if anything further developed and she totally returned to normal.

So thank you for the advice, particularly on the Metro.

I'm still adding pumpkin to her food for a few more days, but, other than that, all is well.

Thanks again!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Glad to hear she's back to normal!