Quick Q: Fromm 4-Star line

[Stacy]

We've always talked about being able to switch flavors between the 4 Star line of foods without transitioning, but some of the flavors are grain free, and some of them are healthy grain. I've only ever fed the healthy grain formulas (not because I'm afraid of DCM, that's just what I've always fed.) But can I, or should I rotate through the grain free formulas too? 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I thought of that too, so I checked. There's cheese in just about every Fromm formula. Wisconsin's claim to fame, lol. 

[J and Riley (and Luna)]

Lol makes sense.  Still a mystery then unless it's just too MUCH cheese.  I know a few people who can only handle cheese in small quantities.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, cheese is the 11th ingredient in the Frommage formula, so I don't think there's a whole lot in there, but who knows?

[Stacy]

She had a grain free formula at her old home, and I was told that it caused diarrhea then. So who knows. I know sometimes what is scientifically supposed to happen and what actually happens aren't always the same thing. 

My thought, and maybe I'm off base, is that that particular formula seems pretty heavy on legumes. Chickpeas are the third ingredient. And I don't think it's causing heart disease, but I know that too much hummus causes me some interesting digestive effects. Do you think that it could have the same effect in dogs? 

I should probably stop trying to always find the next best thing and just go with what works. I really just want the *best* thing. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

IMO, the "best" food is the one that works. :)
Prior to all the talk of Champion being sold, I always thought that Orijen was the "best" kibble money could buy. It's what JD ate before his IBD diagnosis, and he did great on it. So when I thought about getting a new puppy, there was no doubt in my mind that I would feed Orijen again. 

Then Jasper came home from the breeder on Fromm's Four Star grain free Surf and Turf.  And he did great with it. It's probably not what I would have chosen if he'd come home on Purina or some other crap, but it's a good brand. What would be the reason to switch? 

If it ain't broke....

[Stacy]

You're right, provided it is actually a good food. I mean, Willow was doing great on Pro Plan and Olivia did well on Royal Canin for years. I really thought I was feeding her one of the best foods out there. I knew not to buy anything from the grocery store and that Science Diet and Purina were no good. But I thought I had picked a good one.

I just want to keep them healthy so they live forever. But I picked a good food company. I guess it only makes sense to go with a formula that agrees with them. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Yes, it goes without saying that it has to be a food from a good company. Beyond that though, any formula that works is fine. There is no "best". 

I really think people put way too much emphasis on diet and food as it relates to health or longevity. It's only food. It provides energy and nutrients. There are certain ingredients that are harmful and can cause health problems, but not in any of the brands we recommend. Food, no matter how high quality or nutritious it might be, cannot cure illness or prevent illness from happening. I'm always amazed when someone posts about some non-digestive health issue their dog is having and people ask what they are feeding. Or they describe a bunch of non-digestive symptoms and mention that they feed xyz and haven't changed foods recently, as if that would have anything to do with it. 
Imagine going to the doctor for a strep throat or an ear infection and the doctor asks you what you eat. Doesn't happen. Because food has nothing to do with it, lol. 

Thinking about the dogs I know who have lived unusually long lifespans, and those who have died before their time, it doesn't seem to me that food has played much of a role in either group. I know a 14.5 year old Lab who's eaten Science Diet her whole life, and I know of dogs who were on the highest quality diets possible, some on raw diets, who died at young ages of cancer, Addison's, bloat, IMHA, and other horrible diseases. So does that mean we should feed Science Diet? 

You know what does seem to increase a dog's life span? Exercise, and lots of it. That 14.5 year old Lab still gets walked twice a day, every single day, regardless of weather. 

But of course, what really has the greatest effect on health and longevity is genetics. And that's one thing you cannot change.

So relax. Worrying never helped anyone or their dog live longer, lol. 

[Stacy]

I so agree with you about genetics. Some people and dogs hit the genetic lottery. Others just aren't as lucky and it doesn't always matter how healthy their lifestyle is. 

I really try not to worry! I'm just really good at it. But I'm working on it.

[J and Riley (and Luna)]

My bichon had the genetics for longevity...18.5 years of eukanuba, table scraps, stealing chocolates and numerous other toxic items.  She was rarely walked but was a healthy weight.

Luna was exercised and ate good kibble but genetics were not on her side.

I think all we can do is try to give them what we can for good care and try not to dwell on the "what ifs".

[Jon Rascon]

We (two mini-med goldendoodles) recently switched from grain free to grains with Fromms and haven't had any issues - in fact, their stool seems to be smaller and harder now. Easy on the pick up, lol.

We usually go back and forth from 5 lb bag (which lasts about 5 days) to the 12 lb bag (which lasts about 2 weeks).

Good to know we can go back and forth between grain free and grains moving forward - think their favorite was the beef frittata - although I see they just came out with a beef version of grain, so we'll try that soon.

My only complaint is that the 5lb bag has a resealable top and it doesn't appear the 12 lb bag does... I put them in airtight cannister, but still, lol.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You're better off emptying the bag into ziplock bags and/or an airtight container and disposing of the bag anyway. It may help prevent allergies to storage mites, which proliferate in the particulate matter of dry foods. 

Storage mites are as common an allergen as dust mites, for dogs and humans alike. My Jackdoodle had both. I bought the huge 2.5 gallon ziplock bags and emptied his food into those, and then put the bags into an airtight storage container besides. 

Your dogs may not have any allergies, but allergies don't always show up until a dog is well past 2 or 3 years old, and both Labs and Goldens are prone to them. 

Re-bagging the food also helps it stay fresher, as it's much easier to squeeze the air out of the ziplock bags than the bags the food comes in, even when they do have a resealable top. :) 

Beef Frittata is by far Jasper's favorite of the Four Star formulas. 

[Stacy]

I switched two of them to the grain free on the same day, and what you describe is exactly what I found with Katie. She's only 29 pounds and sometimes I struggle to even find her poop in the yard. But that wasn't Willow's reaction to it.

And sometimes you wonder, did she get into something that didn't agree with her, or did she eat too many treats, or was there some other variable? But there really wasn't. And it didn't happen immediately. It was over the course of 2 weeks. Her stool just got softer and softer until the last couple days it went from semi-formed and soft to pudding-like and had mucous in it. Never any blood. But that was when I started to get concerned.

Then when I switched back it went from gross to totally normal in a couple days. For whatever reason, there was just something in there (or not in there) that didn't work for her. And I'm not sure that all grain free would have that effect or if it was just this formula. But I'm not sure how many times you take a dog off a perfectly good food that works for them to try something that might not. 

I'm still not sure why it didn't work. I don't think there were any ingredients in there that she hadn't eaten. Just in different amounts. But I guess no one told her gut the rules!