4 month old doodle

[Jacki Waldman]

I have a 4 month old doodle.  He weighs about 19 pounds.  We got him from a puppy store! (I have allergies and we wanted to see how I would do with one, there are no breeders by me so my daughter caught me on a week moment and we went to see one)  Needless to say we fell in love!!! He was dehydrated, had a parasite and a cold.  He was about 9 weeks and 5 pounds. After 3 days in the ver, he was 7.9 pounds and feeling great.  He has been a great puppy.  Our only complaint would be the nipping.  He goes through about a 1/2 hour 3x a day of constant chewing.  When we got him the puppy store said he was a medium goldendoodle, but they lied about his parents size twice so I have no idea how big he will get.  Any ideas???  This weekend he has been making about 4 doodies a day.  He barks when he needs to go out.  SO my husband took him out and he made a big doodie, then he came inside and not a minute later made another one.  He has not had a number 2 accident yet in the house so I am wondering if it has something to do with the original parasite? or my husband seems to think it is about his training treats.  By the way just to brag he can sit, wave, high five, down and rollover.  We love him so much.  But I am a first time dog owner and I get nervous about the littliest things.  Any ideas about the number 2 incident.  I love this site.  Although it keeps me up at night reading about all the great doodles.

[Pattty Oehrlein]

Oh I wish I could help, I am also a new dog mom (3mo gd) - My girl gives us about 3 presents a day- she is 24lbs - and eats 3X a day with snacks. It could be a parasite but it also could be he is still a puppy. Sometimes my puppy will do her business and gets distracted and doesn't actually finish- I find if I walk her about the yard some more she may continue to make that deposit. In the cold it and lousy weather I have to make sure not to rush her. Try changing up the treats and see if that is the reason and also always check with vet.

Good Luck- such a cutie and so very smart. Rollover - and High Five- I would be bragging all day long!

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

I'm also going to say that at 4 months and 19 lbs he should not be that big unless he has some sort of health issues that has slowed his growth for some reason.  The usual calculation for how big is 16 week weight x 2, plus up to 10 lbs.  That at the most would keep him under 50 lbs and that is very small for a male golden doodle that is not a mini. 

As for the poos.  If as you say he is making 4 doodies a day and they are Large, it may have to do with the type food that you are feeding.  If you are feeding a low grade food and he gets a lot of food, you are going to have larger doodies.  You might want to join the food group and read up on some high quality foods that could result in less doodie!

[Adina P]

The general rule of thumb is to double their 16 week weight and add 5-10 lbs.  So I'd say he could be 40-50 lbs full grown.  At this age he can go down to 2 meals a day.  Also what food are you feeding him?  That could make a difference...the type and amount you feed.

[Jacki Waldman]

HI!  Thanks for the response.  I am feeding him Royal Canine digestive health for medium puppies.  He eats twice a day (about 1 cup in the morning and 1 cup at night).  I don't think that is the problem.  I think it is the training treats.  SInce I take him to his puppy class and my 11 year old daughter loves to teach him tricks, he is getting a lot of those little training treats.  They smell very potent of bacon or sirlion and are soft.  Now that I am reading all these posts I think that is what it is.  Do you have any recommendations on training treats?  I will check out the food group that everyone mentioned.  Thanks again.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Please do join us in the Food Group. We have a list of Recommended Barnds (Royal Canin is not on it) and lots of recommendations for training treats.

The treats you are suing could very well be contributing to his stool issues, but it is more likely that the RC food is mostly to blame for the stool volume, since it contains a LOT of fillers.

[Elizabeth & Cosmo]

From the Royal Canin web site, here are the ingredients for the Medium Puppy formula:

Chicken meal, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken fat, corn, wheat gluten, dried beet pulp, natural flavors, rice flour, wheat, fish oil, sodium silico aluminate, vegetable oil, brewers dried yeast, potassium phosphate, calcium carbonate, salt, fructooligosaccharides, L-lysine, hydrolyzed yeast, choline chloride, taurine, DL-methionine, vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), biotin, D-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, niacin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], trace minerals (zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), rosemary extract, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols and citric acid.

Source: http://products.royalcanin.us/products/dog-food/medium-puppy.aspx?A...

I don't know for sure that this is the source of the poop issues, but there are certainly higher-quality puppy foods available. You can find them listed in the Food Group. Generally, when you look at the list of ingredients, you want the items listed before the first source of fat (meaning they are most predominant in the formula) to be whole meats (like chicken, lamb, etc.--NOT meal or byproduct meal) or vegetables (NOT grains or gluten and not pulp or meal).

For training, I use Zuke's Minis. They are very small. In our actual training classes, our trainer had us use chicken lunch meat torn into small shreds.

[Kaytlin and Cooper]

meal is ok, provided it is not byproduct meal.. meal is the meat with the water removed 

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=meat-meal

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The corn and wheat are the biggest problem with this food. Brewer's rice is floor sweepings from breweries and should not be in a dog's food. All of that grain and gluten is what is contributing to the stool volume, because the puppy's body can't really break it down or utilize it very well. Unnamed fish oil is also a problem, as it almost certainly preserved with ethoxyquin, because Royal Canin outsources ingredients through thirs party food brokers.

As Kaytlin said, meal is fine, and is in fact higher in protein than whole meats, because the water content has been removed.

I agree with Zuke's minis as great training treats. Soft treats with a strong smell of bacon sound like the really bad stuff you find in gorcery stores, pupperoni and that kind of thing. Those kinds of treats usually contain some really undesirable dyes and preservatives.

[Elizabeth, Bailey & Bruin]

Bailey was on Royal Canin until about 8-10 weeks ago.  She is 9 months old now. 

She has transitioned very nicely over to Orijen for puppies.  Since you are a new doodle mom like I was, I would suggest taking alot of the advice from other more experienced doodle parents here...I have been doing a lot of reading in all the different groups and respect a lot of them and their advice..

 

Karen and Jack gave me a lot of advice on how to transition Bailey over to Orijen and we had no problems..

 

Good luch with your new doodle..they are the best!!

[F, Calla & Luca]

The type of food is a big issue in how much the volume of stool is but generally going after each meal is not unusual and when you feed less often, which you could start to do now, you will have fewer stools per day. Also, grain filled treats tend to loosen stools. All protein treats like chicken jerky bits will not do this. If you haven't joined the food group you should. There is a wealth of information on recommended food and treats and what to avoid.

[Kaytlin and Cooper]

as others have said, you can double the weight at 4 months and plus or minus 10 pounds, so he will likely be small.

The more fillers in his food and treats (corn, wheat, soy) the larger his poops will be. Check out the food group for more info and reccomended foods, and also dogfoodproject.com 

Coming from a pet store means he was from a puppy mill, and it is very common for dogs from mills to be sick. He should make a full recovery

As for chewing - chances are he was taken from his mom too early and didnt learn bite inhibition (mom dog tells then to stop). That is often the case with puppy mills - they want to make their money asap. The mom and pups were probably kept in a dirty cage (which can make potty training more difficult) and not socialized, so it will take some work on your part to correct his chewing behaviour but it can be done. Make sure there are always chew bones and toys. When he chews on something he shouldnt (shoe, furniture, kids toys, you etc) firmly say no, take whatever it is away from him (squeeze the sides of his mouth to make him drop it) and give him something he can chew on. Then say good boy. You can offer a treat too if you like. Puppies will chew alot anyway, some more than others. I think my MILs dog ( a rescue and still only about 11 months old) chews 80% of the day!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Excellent advice, Kaytlin.

I would add that even when mill dogs are not taken from the litter too early, they still don't have the opportunity for normal interactions with their siblings and their mother, because of the living conditions. Puppies cannot romp in cages, and the mothers cannot "correct" them. Plus the mother has been living in a cage all her life and probably doesn't speak "Doglish" herself. It is the play and interactions between puppies, and the mother's corrections, that helps them develop bite inhibition.