Follow up to Chronic UTI in 4 month old puppy. I am so worried.

[Donna P.]

Baylie the goldendoodle was diagosed with a UTI when she was 3 months old. For the last 6 weeks she has been on revolving antibiotics. For 20 days she was on Clavamox. 10 days on Baytril, and just finished 10 days on SMZ-TMP. Nothing has knocked it back. My vet has been hestitant to send out a sample to the lab to culture because she says that most of the time they get back a negative result even when she, the vet, is able to see bacteria on the slide. It costs $150 for the test, regardless. So she usually gives a broad spectrum antibiotic which usually clears up the problem.

The dog needs to be off any antibiotics for two weeks before she can send a sample to the lab, so in the meantime, she is going to perform an ultrasound and take a urine sample directly from the bladder to make sure that is where the infection is coming from. If that shows nothing then she will send a sample to the lab.

3 days ago, I started her on a cranberry extract for dogs and cats. Don't know if that will help, but can't hurt. Has anyone else experienced such a resistant infection, and what was the outcome? I am so worried that she might find something that isn't fixable. Anyone got advice?

[Bonnie and Kona]

I have no advice but want to say how sorry I am that your sweet puppy has been so sick. Hoping for a good report soon. Please keep us updated on Baylie.

[Donna P.]

Thanks, Bonnie,

The odd thing is that she seems fine. She is sleeping all through the night, about 8 hours, without having to pee. She is eating fine, has unlimited energy, and seems like a perfectly happy, healthy puppy. But every week, her urine tests positive for white blood cells. Very perplexing.

[Bonnie and Kona]

Oh my goodness, Donna. That does sound strange! I haven't had a dog with a UTI but I know lots of people on this site have. I hope you get some good advice.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm sorry to hear your pup is having this problem. I hope you can find some answers and get it resolved.

If you don't have insurance for your pup yet, I'd also suggest getting it before something is diagnosed.

You might do a search in the Health and Medical Issues Group, I believe people have posted about this before. We've also had some discussion about it in the Food Group, but it really isn't related to food.

[Donna P.]

I checked into an insurance policy, but most all had a clause that said they wouldn't cover pre-existing conditions or symptions leading up to a diagnosis. So I'm sunk there.

[Chelsea and Bailey]

Hi Donna, so sorry to hear about Baylie... I just have a few questions and concerns regarding the treatment from your vet.  I work in healthcare so I do have some experience with knowing what tests and such to order and the statement that the vet had put her on many weeks of antibiotics without actually doing a sterile urine sample bothers me.  If it is true that she has only taken a sample from catching it while the dog is peeing in a cup, then seeing white cells are not all that uncommon in urine, there are many ways for bacteria to get in the culture (the dogs hair, urethra, etc. all harbor bacteria).

I also wanted to ask what the symptoms are for your pup? Is she urinating excessively, straining, yelping with voiding? What made them think she has a UTI?

 

I am struggling to put this out in words here but basically what I am saying is that if she is not exhibiting any of those symptoms then I would stop the antibiotics, as they can actually make your pup more susceptible to infection if on long term. Secondly, I would ask for the sterile sample ASAP if you feel it is needed, which is essentially inserting a catheter up the urethra into the bladder and draining it from there. That should have been done first before any of those antibiotics were started. Forgive me if the vet actually has done this already.

 

If you could just answer those questions then I may be able to give you a little more insight. I can tell you that I went through the same experience with my Bailey at 3 mo of age. I was going crazy because she was having so many accidents and I was taking her outside every 10 min I thought for sure she had a UTI. In one 8 hour day I had taken her out over 20 + times and she was peeing in her crate. I took in a sample, the vet looked at it and said she had never seen so many white cells in a pup before and gave a broad spectrum of abx and then persuaded me to buy their specialty rx food. I bought into it. After the antibiotics were done I took her in again and we again just took a midstream urine, which came back with huge amounts of white cells, so we did a sterile sample which was essentially just a catheter inserted into the bladder without ultrasound. The vet looked at it and saw that it had a few white cells and stated we could culture it and do all these extra tests and tried to scare me by basically saying that once a puppy has a UTI it almost always becomes chronic. I stood my ground and decided to wait and see, she was not whining nor straining with pee and frequency decreased as she aged.. Basically I dont think she ever had a UTI, I was a first time puppy owner and freaked when something was abnormal. I too started the cranberry capsules, just from local health food store and started her on one a day. I eventually stopped that and a year later she has never had another episode. This may not be your case but I just thought I would share our experience with the vet.

 

From your explanation above my gut is telling me that this has not been done in the correct way and I would go and get a second opinion.

[Donna P.]

Thanks for your reply. We brought Baylie home at 8 weeks. She is the youngest puppy we have every had, and I expected that she would need to go out often, so no cause for alarm there. We took her out about every 2 hours for the first couple of weeks. I did notice that when she would pee, she would usually squat twice. She'd pee once, then chase a leaf, or poop, then pee again. I thought it was just a puppy thing. Otherwise she seemed perfectly fine. It wasn't until a month later, we were visiting friends, and she peed on the floor right after having been outside. They have dogs, so, again, no alarm, until she peed on the floor again 10 minutes later, the rest of the day, she peed in trickles all day. Took sample to vet next morning and she found white blood cells. Thus started the antibiotics, with a urine sample after each 10 days.

 

After the first couple of days of the antibiotic, she seemed fine. I thought that the antibiotics had done the trick. But another urine test at the end of the meds, showed the same amount of white cells.

 Baylie seems great. She now sleeps through the night, 8-9 hours. She is VERY energetic. I wouldn't think she had any issues at all, but again, today, the vet said there was not any improvement in the white cell count. She has an appointment Monday morning for an ultrasound of her bladder and kidneys. While there, they are going to capture a sterile sample.

 

Tuesday, I started giving her a cranberry extract made for dogs and cats. I'm off the antibiotics for the time being. If not for the fact that she had symptoms of a UTI 6 weeks ago, I never would have considered that she had anything wrong with her now. But where are those white cells coming from? Hope to know more by Monday afternoon.

[Sally, Echo and Emmi]

I had a black lab that had this same issue as a pup. They kept giving her antibiotics (like the clavamox) and as soon as we would stop her symptoms started up after a couple days. so we took her for an U/S to rule out any genetic abnormality (she didn't have any) but my regular vet kept putting her on the same antibiotics for a little longer period. FINALLY I insisted that my vet speak to the specialist that did the U/S (not my regular vet but a kidney specialist if I remember correctly) He insisted that we do a culture and lo and behold it showed that the infection was resistant to the antibiotics they had been giving her (one of the drugs was listed as moderately useful but NOT the most useful drug needed to clear up her problem). So we put her on the drug that the culture showed to be the specific one to clear up the specific bacteria and she was on that drug for 6 weeks....never a day with a problem after that. The kidney doctor told me that sometimes the vets don't leave them on the antibiotics long enough for an immature immune system. I hope this info helps!

[Ashley, Ronnie and Ruby]

Wow...sounds like our first four months with Ruby. Lots of meds (pretty much the same as yours), tests and money later, we got another opinion from a new vet that did a cystocentesis. She said that Ruby's vulva had a fold in it. If she would have been allowed to go into heat it probably would have 'fixed' itself. We never knew any better and the other vets never told us anything about it. What was happening because of the fold was that bacteria was contaminating the urinalysis from the fold. The test from the cytocentesis actually showed she did not have the infection! We are always keeping an eye on her but so far so good (knock on wood). As she is growing, her vulva fold is reducing but I tend to wash her more often in that area. Could there be another issue contaminating the test results?

[Vickie Barter and Nikita]

Hello Donna, I hope Baylie is feeling better. I am not a vet but am a licensed vet technician.  You stated your vet is going to collect a sterile sample, is this the first one? What I mean has all the other samples been voided/free catch samples? It is normal to see some bacteria on a voided sample. So I am glad your vet is going to do this. I do agree the labs dont always find anything on a culture. Having said that if they do grow something they can be very beneficial. But a culture can only be run accurately on a sterile sample. 

Does Baylie still have symptoms? UTI's can be somewhat uncomfortable does your vet have Baylie on any pain meds? The vets I work for put the dogs on  pain medications along with antibiotics. This could make Baylie feel better.  My vets will also take a lateral xray to check for bladder stones.

Just a thought I dont want to undermind your vet in any way...just wanted to offer some help.

Vickie and Nikita

 

 

 

[Donna P.]

The odd thing is that Baylie is showing no symptoms of a UTI. She is making it through the night 8-9 hours, does not seem to be in any discomfort on peeing, eats great, very energetic, happy, normal. The vet has not said she has seen bacteria, just white blood cells. Monday she is scheduled for an ultrasound, and they are taking a sterile sample. All urine tests to date have been collected/free catch pee. But the cost of all these urine tests and meds is really mounting up. I can't wait to get the bill for the ultrasound. :)

We live in a small rural town. I've been using this vet for 14 years. I don't want to give her the impression that I don't trust her judgement. I respect her reasoning on the lab tests. It is expensive, and her many years of experience have shown that they most often don't get a positive culture. But I think she is now ready to go that direction. But we have to have Baylie off meds for a couple of weeks before sending it in.

[Teresa]

Donna - several of us have now replied in a very similar manner on this stream and the one you have under the health issues. Please believe that you need to push for the sterile sample and culture. My Adelaide did have a positive culture and as Sally has stated, if we hadn't cultured we would never have put her on the right medication. Once we cleared it properly it has not returned. While I believe your vet is trying to do the best for you because of expense, he/she could be causing you expense by not doing the thorough testing up front. Baylie likely had an infection first time around and now you are getting unsterile readings that are causing you great anxiety. Please keep us updated but try not to stress. Dogs with UTI show symptoms. It doesn't sound like she is uncomfortable which is really great news. Sending big Doodle & Poodle {{hugs}} your way.