Do I have what it takes?

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

Last night was the first night that both boys had back to back hour long training classes - and I'm exhausted! Wednesday is also my golf clinic day so earlier I was whacking a hundred balls on the driving range so add that to 2 training classes and well lets just say my age is showing.  So Rooney & Stuart need to be fed and walked (meaning gone poop) all by 6:00 p.m. when it is time to load up in the puppy hauler.  I have a bag (think diaper bag for dogs) that I pack with enough training treats to last a month, leashes, poop bags, etc.   I also take our large soft-sided folding crate so that which ever dog is not in the current class has a place to stay where I can see them, don't want anyone to "walk off" with one of my boys!  It is a 40 minute drive to get to the training facility so by the time class is over, I repack the suv and get back home, it makes for a long night.  Both of them hate their turn being left out of class and there is a little whining going on but I'm hoping that they'll get the idea soon enough.  Stuart is attending "Good Manners" and is the only dog there under a year, he actually does pretty well if I let him run the zoomies off before class gets started - lol.  Rooney's class is the Canine Good Citizen and frankly I am embarrassed that he didn't do this before his first b-day - he was ready and then I got Stuart and had my hands full of paper plate poop and didn't get it done.  Rooney could test now and pass so it is just a good refresher for him but I have to admit that I wonder if I have bitten off more than I can chew - I am worn out!!!  This morning we got up at the usual time and did our potty - neither boys wants breakfast - they went back to sleep so I'm not the only one pooped out!  The one question that I have for you training pros - we put Stuart in an Easy Walker last night to give it a try - and I need to go buy one for training purposes, I do want to go back to a regular collar down the road but Stuart has times when he pulls, not always but as he gets bigger - he is getting worse.  So  Easy Walker or Gentle Leader?    

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[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

If the harness style works for Stuart, I would go with that.  Many have lots of success with it.  We use the Gentle Leader (head harness) on both our girls but only because I've tried the harness style and it just didn't phase them.  The Gentle Leader works, but they aren't particularly in love with it.  We are currently in the process of working with them on regular collars as I want to get them off of the training collar.  It has just been laziness on my part (well that and two shoulder surgeries) that it hasn't happened already.  In hind site, I wish I had just bitten the bullet and really focused on good loose leash skills on a regular collar when they were smaller.  Life would have been much simpler if that had been my main goal in the beginning.

 

I realize you didn't really ask, but when I read your post I'm exhausted.  What comes to mind for me is why, if Rooney is well enough behaved to currently pass his CGC, don't you just not worry about him right now and put the training focus on Stuart.  Might be a lot less stressful for all of you.    If you are all tense and stressed in class, Stuart is going to pick up on that and it is going to make the training all that much harder.  Sounds like you have Rooney under control .. so what if he doesn't take his CGC for a few more months.  It is the behavior that matters, not the piece of paper.  Personally it seems that getting Stuart trained is much more important because he is going to be a big ole boy!  Also, if you do continue with training both, any chance maybe one of your friends or neighbors has a young teenager that might want to ride with you and watch the other one for you so you can just focus on class. 

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

I wish I knew someone with a teenager!  Great idea but this is place has almost no kids - it's Florida the land of the old - lol.  I'm not stressed during class just tired!  And yes I could do Rooney later - but I'd still bring him with us - I don't ever leave just one home alone for anything longer than a walk, just my preference I guess.  If they go to daycare though they are seperated and don't see each other.  Am I making a mistake about this?  I guess I'm wondering how other "multiple" households hand it.  My dh isn't here during the week so no help there.

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

My girls had never been separated (because DH and I went to training together) until they were about 1.5 y/o and I started taking Sophie on her Therapy Visits.  The first few were AWFUL.  Lucy was howling by the time we got out the door (even if DH was home with her) and still howling when we came back.  She then caught onto the routine and would not go in her room when she knew Sophie and I were leaving.   She would run from me.   I then started preparing her some treat toys that she only gets when Sophie and I are leaving.  (She is VERY treat motivated).  They now each know the routine that leads to Sophie going one way and Lucy the other.  When Lucy sees me fix those treat toys and then ask her if she wants to go potty, she knows what is coming.   If she doesn't need to potty she goes straight to her room and waits at the door for me to bring the toys.  Sophie doesn't go to her room because she knows we are going out the back door to the van.  It is comforting to know that Lucy now feels ok with our leaving her.  She is now normally asleep when we get back.  Although we really only separate them when I'm doing therapy work, it is good to know that should there be a reason down the road (like medically) that they need to be separated, that they are prepared for it.

[F, Calla & Luca]

Since I got Calla training went by the wayside. One training class at a time was plenty for me. Then I took Calla along with Luca a few times and decided to give it a rest and never went back. Both of mine could use more training but I never get to it and basically nothing is bad enough to compel me. I see no purpose in certificates if you're not planning to do therapy work or something. If your a dog, or person for that matter, who has a job to do the paper comes in handy, otherwise it's superfluous to me.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Well I definitely think you have what it takes!  When I was training two at the same time I did it on separate days, but I think it's totally possible to do them the same night and that way you only have to make that trip once a week.  I wouldn't worry about having the one who is not being trained stay in the crate...that's actually good for them. 

As for the Gentle Leader or the harness, what does your trainer recommend?  I've found in most cases the training "tool" follows training program/method.  I trained Guinness on a flat collar....all positive reinforcement.  Obviously that didn't work with Murph so I did use a training collar (choke chain) for him which was consistent with the method of training we were employing.  For walks now I use a Gentle Leader for him.  He knows HOW to heel but for some unknown reason the Gentle Leader seems to keep him calm and much less likely to react to other dogs.  I know there are lots of people who really like the harness, but my concern is that it really doesn't teach them to heel....it just prevents the pulling.  So, I guess it depends on what you want to get from the training and the trainer's approach.

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

The gentle leader head harness was originally explained to us that when it rubs on their nose it releases endorphins just like when a human exercises and makes them more calm and thus a little more well behaved.  I totally am a believer in that.  My girls are completely different with their gentle leaders on, particularly in the puppy days.

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

I really don't want to admit it but I feel a little like a failure (don't any body beat me up over this) using any thing but a collar.  This isn't Stuart's failure - IT IS MY TRAINING FAILURE.  I've never seen a dog yet that an excellent trainer couldn't train to heel on leash.  Rooney was taught by his breeder and could heel by the time he was 10 wks.  It was done with a martingale w/chain.  Snap and release.  I waited while trying to get Stuart well and then with two dogs in tow - it didn't get done the way I should have.  :(    :(    :(                 I've had people tell me that their dog can not walk on a leash no matter what - I don't say it but I don't believe that.  It might make our lives easier to put them in a G.L. or E.W. but trust me - they could learn to walk on leash.  So for that reason I refuse to give up on the collar - but the harness might help me gain some control back for now and then I'm going to have to work extra on the collar/heel.  Whew - worse than having toddlers to potty train - lol.

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

When I say control back.  Stuart will walk nicely on leash SOME OF THE TIME.  But say we are getting out of the puppy hauler and walking to the dog park gate - he is lunging and pulling me and Rooney along or going into training classes - same thing.  He is doing very well and doesn't jump on people but he goes nuts over other dogs, wanting to play and will jump on them then if I try to hold him back - he is jumping, twisting and lunging like a maniac.  He wore the harness so I guess that is what I am going to try.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Walking nicely around distractions is the biggest challenge...been there with Murph more times than I want to remember.  Good luck.

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

We use the gentle leader harness with Peri and although she isn't a fan of it (she used to run from me when I took it out, now she just cuts her eyes at me and jumps on the couch for me to put it on), it works. It makes her a totally different dog. She ignores distractions on walks, she just "gets the job done".  I like it - it works for us.

[Adina P]

First, you aren't a training failure because you aren't DONE training.  Stuart hasn't been in active training very long so you can't have failed yet.  And I agree with you...all dogs can learn to walk on leash properly.  Yes, the owner has to train well, but owners don't come perfectly trained in HOW to do this for every single dog.  Some people give up and just accept it, others are simply not as skilled and need to work more to develop their skills, others simply are using a poor training method that will never work for their dog.  Lots of reasons why there are many dogs who still are awful on leash. 

 

Second, you're not a professional trainer so you're gonna mess up more often than not.  Even pros make mistakes. All of our dogs have learned to heel well on leash...some better than others but none (after major effort in training) pulled on walks or acted too looney around distractions (save for Boca's whining that I had gotten close to nipping in the bud and then I got too pregnant).  This wasn't because I was flawless in training. With each dog I made different mistakes and even during my trip with Boca to meet with my trainer, several flaws in my training were pointed out to me.  Sucks that I am not perfect, right?  But also totally normal given that my whole career is not dedicated to training dogs.  So don't beat yourself up for not being among the top trainers of the world unless that is also your entire life focus/new career goal =)

 

I'm not a fan of harnesses or head halters. I just don't like them.  But I also love the training method I use and don't like treat training.  You mention that Stuart walks properly on leash SOMETIMES and goes berserk at other times.  Remember that dogs don't just learn in a vacuum where you teach them "THIS is how you walk when a leash goes on and you'll get lots of treats if you do it..so just do it!"  They have to be taught the same thing around distractions.  They have to learn that

"YUP even when we get to the dog park you still have to walk this way until I say so."

"YUP, even when you see your best friend across the street...you still have to walk close to me."
"YUP, even when that dog ahead looks scary...."
"YUP, even when we are leaving the car and about to enter your favorite Daycare...."

"YUP, even when Rooney is with us...."

This isn't a perfect analogy, but think of golfing and developing skills in hitting the ball into the hole.  You don't just get taught once about holding the club with ONE type of club and on the driving range alone and then enter a tournament, right?  You have to practice with different clubs and on different courses and learn how to use different strategies and know how to get out of sand traps and go over water and blah blah blah.  But to expect Stuart to who has only learned in class proper walking-on-leash to be 'as good' at it when he shows up (with you not in training mode) outside the dog park is like expecting a person who has never golfed before to end up under par on a professional course after learning at the driving range.

 

So in those moments when you are unloading both dogs to go to the dog park...he's going to act like a loony because he hasn't been taken into that situation for training..YET.  Until he's been specifically worked around the 'hard' stuff he will continue to act like he does because to him he just wants to get going and GET THERE and doesn't give a rat's patootie about where he is in relation to you.  He has to be taught and practiced and trained to behave properly (i.e. the way you want him to) in those circumstances.  And he needs to be on command.  A not-yet-done-training dog has to be told what to do (given a command he's been trained in and you're presently working him in) until he develops the maturity to do the right thing on his own (which could be a while for a lot of high energy dogs).

 

My point is, you aren't done training him so you haven't failed training him. 

 

I also think it's TOTALLY 100% OKAY to leave one dog behind at home.  Although I understand your preference to take both.  But, unless you bring someone with you or are willing to leave one dog in the car...not sure there is a good way to train Stuart around the dog park (for instance).  You have to be able to give one dog your focus during training until Stuart is farther along in training. 

 

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

Adina - you make so much sense!  All of this would be so much more doable if I had dh home in the evenings - I need four hands!!  I will try walking Stuart into the park alone, Rooney can wait till I get Stuart in and then I can walk back (gated community, suv in view at all times).  And no I'm no trainer so do you think if Stuart does better on the easy walker is it a total cop out?  Will using it help me to teach him the proper heel and we can transition back to a collar?  My biggest fear is that it will cause him to never heel on collar.  My other option is to use a prong collar and frankly I do NOT want to use pain as a training tool nor does our trainer.  Side note on the trainer - we love her - seems to know what she is doing but then I heard her tell a story about her own dogs and their behavor and well lets just say the cobbler's kids have no shoes - lol, so now I am wondering.  The martingale worked well for Rooney but Stuart is far too large now for me to be able to manage strength wise.   I appreciate you taking the time to give me some great advice - thank you.