Does Anybody's Doodle Stay Outside?

[Discussing Labradoodles & Goldendoodles]

My mini doodle, Hank, is 12 weeks.  He stays outside in the courtyard during the day and only comes in at night to sleep in his crate.  He likes being outside where he can run and play which seems normal to me.  I was raised with outside dogs.  Hank is my first puppy on my own.  At first, I thought I would try to keep him inside, but the potty training got to be too much for me since I have a mobility impairment, and my reaction time is slower than normal.  He has never had an accident in his crate, doesn't cry at night, or need a potty break in the middle of the night.  Please don't think I'm a horrible person.  I love Hank as much as an inside dog owner.  Just wonder if anyone else has an all or primarily outside doodle?  Does anyone's doodle sleep outside?  If so, how does that work out for you?  Basically, I think I have one good puppy!  Just want to make things as happy for him (and me) as possible.  Thanks for any feedback or insight you have to share.  Hope I don't end up feeling guilty about considering having him sleep outside.  I really do love my puppy.  Honest.  I do.

[Cheryl and Finnegan]

Me too.  Good luck in the morning.

[Camilla and Darwin]

I am going to preface this by saying that I have not read every page of this, but about half of them. Let me see if I have the facts straight. Also I don't normally comment on threads like this because I am scared of confrontation and don't want people to think I'm a jerk. So... sorry if you guys think I'm a jerk after this...

This woman wants to keep her dog outside for all of the day (possibly the night) and sleep in a crate at night. He's a puppy and a mini doodle. When he is outside he will be in a fenced area with a dog house and a covered porch. Is this all correct?

Of course keeping your dog outside is a stupid idea and definitely not what is best for the dog. And yes, he is a young small puppy and going into winter this won't be a good thing at all. I completely understand and agree with that. I agree that this dog won't have the life that a dog should have. HOWEVER, is this seriously what everyone should be focusing their energy and time on? There are thousands and thousands of outdoor dogs everywhere. Most of whom DON'T come inside for the night, DON'T have a covered porch. The majority sit in a small kennel or chained up. This is not even close to being an uncommon situation, and isn't considered animal abuse by any city government that I'm aware of. This dog will be a typical outdoor dog, probably unsocialized but possibly one who has people to interact with and something to do all day. And she is apparently "evil" for doing this? Really? How do you define an evil person? I have 3 extended family members right now who have outdoor dogs. I do not agree with it and thing it's awful. But do I think they are evil people? OF COURSE NOT. They aren't evil, they just aren't the best dog owners. The dogs would definitely be happier inside. But they are generally healthy and happy dogs. I know this because I interact with them. I am just disturbed that someone who keeps their dog outside is considered evil here? Does nobody else see how messed up that is?

If this whole thread is what it appears to me, this is a massive overreaction. Of course it's possible she was aiming for this reaction (if she was in fact a troll) but all of you are awesome caring people and can dedicate your time to way more helpful pursuits. There are dogs out there that are in much, much worse situations than this. Dogs who need help. Instead of feeling horrible and continuing to freak out over this thread, perhaps a better idea would be go volunteer at your local shelter or write a blog post about the outdoor dog problem and share it with your facebook friends.

[Lonnie & Libby Lu]

Well said Camilla!  Too much time has been taken on this subject and at times it has been very hurtful.

[F, Calla & Luca]

Brava Camilla.

[Adina P]

I agree Camilla.  Especially about the 'animal abuse' allegations.  Troll?  Maybe.  But I could hardly call it abuse without knowing for sure this dog would be stuck outside in weather that is unfit.  Simply being outside is part of nature.  It's how humans and animals have lived for a very long time.   I have family with an outside dog.  HARDLY abused.   But it's how it is.  They took her to the beach with them and stayed in a pet friendly hotel.  I was surprised, but they love her even though they keep her outdoors.  They don't place her on equal footing to any human family member.  They don't consider her a 'child'--but it's not animal abuse to consider a dog a pet and not a child.

I know for a fact that Boca would be happier if she had a dog door open 24/7.  She rings to go outside innumerable times during the day.  She likes the outdoors--and I would guess many on here grew up in the days where parents would send their kids out for the day and not see them till supper/sundown.  Were there not dangers to kids back then?  Sure!  Is it really worse now?  I'm not sure it really is more dangerous, just more reported dangers.  How is it THAT much more dangerous to keep a dog outside unsupervised in a fenced yard? 

In any case I also agree most dogs, especially little ones, shouldn't be left in the yard all day and night.  I would also recommend to any friend that if they get a dog they consider that it is a pack animal and wants to be with its people.  And quite often dogs outside correlate to a more or less neglected life because people don't hang out all day outside or even half a day.  But to make it sound like dogs can't handle being outdoors, that they are miserable, desperate and wish for a different life merely because they spend a majority of their time outdoors is a little extreme.  Are kids wilder than dogs that many want to play outside for most of the day?    Yes, caution for safety.  Yes, caution for weather and size and be realistic about the possibilities...but seriously just because something bad COULD happen doesn't mean we should live our lives in 100% prevention of everything.  Kids still walk a few blocks to school buses, even now.  Aren't they at risk for being kidnapped ANY time they are alone?  Does that mean my kids will be under my constant supervision till they leave for college?  No.

I know Boca and know that if she is outside all day she'll probably cause trouble, likely end up digging, finding something to destroy I didn't know was out there.  But if I were out there with her every single time she wanted to go out, well let's just say it would be impossible.  She likes to play with Rosco and there's not space indoors.  She likes to run around and watch squirrels.  She likes to have something to do.  Honestly if I were to meet her needs 100% and allow her the fulfillment she is after, she would be a working dog.  She would have a job of chasing, running, hunting, something!  But she's stuck being a family dog.  Is that her true forte?  I don't think so.  I think she's antsy most of the day for something MORE.  Should I give her to a hunter?  Sorry, she's stuck here with us.  Like an aspiring actress born into a farm family and no opportunity to find a stage. 

What's my point?  I think there was some overreaction, ESPECIALLY if this person is/was a troll.  If they were serious and everyone urged her to keep the dog inside most of the day and gave 100 ways to potty train and did all they could...and the OP still decided to do something different...well there's nothing more you can do.  There's no Animal Control that is going to fine someone for having an outdoor dog unless that dog is missing food, shelter or being actively abused.

[Adina P]

And by overreaction I don't mean this as a 'scolding' -- you have a right to voice your opinion.  But education is about facts, not opinions.  So I think we cease education when we give our opinions of what is best...then it is merely our opinions and passions, not education.  Who the 15th president was is a fact.  Who the best president was is opinion.  What each of the candidates for the next election have stated in their platforms is facts...which candidate is most likely to meet the needs of the USA is an opinion.  So...the same with many issues of raising dogs and kids.  There are some facts...but mostly opinions, preferences, points of view.  I don't care if you get passionate and think some people are crazy for their choices.   Dogs need to pee X number of times a day would be a fact and they almost always need to be trained to potty outdoors is a fact. Dogs need daycare if they are to be alone for more than ___ hours is an opinion.  

Again, not scolding from an administrative point of view.  Not saying you can't respond passionately. 

This is just my opinion.

[F, Calla & Luca]

Good points Adina. I was thinking the same re: animal abuse calls. As kids we wandered around Manhattan from a pretty young age. True I had to report in to an Aunt and tell her what I was about to do. But we went to the huge , somewhat wild local park and walked quite far in the neighborhood. I never told my folks if something happened that might keep them from letting us be free. Nothing major but we had the usual bullies and perverts. And we luckily all got through. Most people I know of today would never permit their kids the freedom we had. There's so much publicity of every crime. And more oversight. There weren't many resources to report neglect or abuse back in the day.

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Adina, Vern is happier outdoors than indoors. He loves to lay in the sun and sometimes, he doesn't want to come in either. To me, this is totally different than keeping a dog outside all day and night. I understand many people have outside dogs, but I am never going to think it is ok to keep a dog outside 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Here are the conditions my neighbor provides for his dog.

When it rains, his doghouse has puddles all around it. There is no shade, no relief from the heat, not much interaction with his owners. Nope, he stays out there all day, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Why have a dog? He is on a chain, so it certainly can't be for protection. I have called Animal Control and will continue to do so, because I feel even though he has shelter and food, it is animal abuse. Nothing will make me change my mind.  Luckily, there are some counties that are beginning to change the laws and not allow dogs to be chained 24/7. I wouldn't wish this on any dog. That was where I was coming from when I responded. I am done with this discussion, because we are not going to change this person's mind, but I am so glad Fudge and Vern are sleeping beside me and not outside.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

And in the case of this discussion, it is a small enclosure surrounded by solid fencing, like an outdoor pen, not a big backyard, no trees or shrubs, and the puppy can't see anything but sky. I doubt that either Boca or Vern would prefer being alone in that type of enclosure all day, as opposed to being in the house in a gated area or an ex-pen.

[BG and Gavin]

Laurie, your picture brought tears to my eyes.  How horrible for that dog and how horrible for you to have to witness this each and every day :(

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Thanks, BG. It breaks my heart. He also has a very small dog chained, too. 

[Cheryl and Finnegan]

That's awful.  Maybe you can get something done by calling the State. You might be able to be directed to the right person through the Department of Kennels and Licensing --even though this isn't a kennel.  Corbett has quietly gutted most of our puppy lemon law, by laying off staff, but maybe someone can help get those dogs out of there.