Does Size Matter?

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

From time to time we hear the unfortunate news about dog attacks.  Just this past weekend, Kathy Hoppe posted her husband was seriously injured by a Great Dane ( to me, that many stitches can be classified as serious).

 

DH, (aka FJ),  and I were discussing dog bites, Kathy Hoppe's discussion, and what happened to me the other night.  

 

Now don't laugh~~ ya, go ahead because if any of you would have a hidden camera you would have laughed.  I was also attacked while riding my bite on Saturday. SIX Viscous Dogs broke away from their crazy lady owner and attacked me.  I stopped, but to no avail, they descended upon my ankles and tried to take chunks out.  Yes, my ankles are getting fat why the heck do you think I am riding a bike?.  They were relentless.  Each taking turns, especially the one who was about 10 months old.  Behind him was an eight week old puppy he seemed to be training.  The owner was able to hold on to three of the dogs but the others got out of control.  At first, being a dog lover I am, I tried to stop to make sure they did not come to far out into the street and get hit by a car.  But the attack continued. Once I thought she had some sort of control over the ones who were off-leash, I started back down the street.  The vicious teenager and his puppy sidekick trailing behind followed me a block growling and biting and..............This situation was out of control and it took  10 minutes before the owner was able to get her dogs inside ( off my darn ankle I mean) and for me to bike on my way.

Okay, these dogs range anywhere from 2 pounds to 6 pounds.  Yorkie.  Snappy, biting, but really cute Yorkies.

So back to DH and our discussion:

So what is the difference?  Do you put a dog down when it is vicious because of size?  The damage of a Great Dane is no comparison to what these six vicious, out of control, Yorkies were attempting to do to me.

When to put a dog down?  What is out of control?  A biting dog?  If it has a history of biting once? Twice.  Three times AND the probability it will bite again if given the chance or gets loose or the owner looks away for 2 seconds, breaks its leash? One who bites but can be controlled by its' owner but never can be trusted?  Police dogs are vicious but are controlled by a human who was trained and so was the dog.  Many questions and situations. 

 

IF YOU KNEW YOUR DOG may bite, would you put it down before or after the bite?

Would love to hear your thoughts.  Please don't tell me Doodles don't bite.  They have.  Poodles also have a high bite statistic compared to some breeds, so it is somewhere ( however recessive? )  in our dogs temperment. 

 

Any thoughts about putting down 6 Yorkies vs. The Large Dane, Boxer, German Shepard, the Doodle?

[Lisa, Daisy & Dexter]

2nd that. Zach bit once, not a full on attack but bit, like a snake. We never had him off leash, we never put him or anyone in a situation where he would be able to do it again. We just took precautions.

It did not make for an easy ownership but we loved him and would never ever have him put down. DH referred to him as a "lawsuit on a leash". Since he never did it again we have no idea would he have or not. In Zach's later years he mellowed so much, anyone could do anything to him but the fear of him biting was still there.

 

[Jennifer and Jack]

If I knew Jack would bite. He would not ever be in a situation where he would have the chance period. A while ago, about a year ago, I was in the hospital and my neighbor was watching Jack at her house, She has two small children under the age of three. Jack loves kids and it was never a problem, well I got a call from her, she tends to overreact, it is her personality. But her first words to me were "Jack attacked Lilly" Lilly was two. When I asked for more detail, it turns out he snapped at her but never bite her. It took a good few times of me asking to find out what happen.. The child was pulling Jack's hair on his belly, so he snapped his head at her to get her off, He has done that with a brush before if I have caught a matt.

 

Even though the girl totally recanted her story, said she was having a bad day, said she overreacted, said Jack never bit her, said all these things including that her daughter pulled Jack's belly hair, Jack has never and will never be left alone with that child again.

 

After she told me that, I had Jack taken from the home by another friend, I had him taken to the vet and paid for a full work up because it is so out of character for him to do that, This was before I knew what happen with her pulling his hair.

 

The bottom line is, just because I can not control a child and how they react to my dog when I am not there, I am responsible, Jack would never break skin or actually bite anyone, but I will never for as long as he is alive leave him with a child that is old enough to harm him or that does not know the proper way to be with a child. Jack and anything he does in my company or someone else's is totally my responsiblity..as is each dog owner.

 

If your dog is not able to be controlled in public, keep them out of public... which brings me to my last story of the night (sorry I am on prednisone which makes me chatty) One time I was walking into Pet Smart with my dog, on a leash totally under my control and another dog lunged at him to try and bite him, I got Jack away in time and the stupid owners response was, My dog doesn't like fluffy dogs!! All I could say was why would you even consider bringing him out in public then

 

People if they could only be as smart as us doodle owners the world would be a better place..!!!

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

So then, additional socialization is not an option?  If the owner, a good owner, was attempting to get the dog used to outside situations, fluffy dogs, loud noises, the whole PetSmart Store situation, this would not be acceptable?  Public is out completely, or is it the ignorant owner?

[Jennifer and Jack]

No, I don't think it is totally out completely, but yes on a busy afternoon at petsmart when you are paying you bill and your dogs leash is loose enough to lunge after another dog, I think that is out.

 

Jack when he was younger had big dog issues, in his daycare he was only ever kept with little dogs. When I realized he was afraid of big dogs and therefore growled and showed his teeth at them, I worked extremely hard with a trainer and we nipped that in the bud, and yes we did it in PetSmart,  I would spend hours in there a week, I would go up to other owners who had big dogs and explain that I was training my dog and asked if it was okay with the help of a trainer to bring my dog near their dog. Most big dog owners agreed, Jack did not have one spare inch to make a mistake at first, as soon as he showed any signs of being scared and growling, he was very quickly corrected with a firm NO and a pull on his leash. Eventually he got the idea and he became more comfortable with bigger dogs. He was never exposed and he got a fear of them. his behavior was unacceptable and He was not allowed ever to be around a big dog until I was totally comfortable that he could be fully trusted. That does not mean he will not growl at a big puppy that is being puppy like and knocking him around but he will warn the puppy like a normal dog does several times before he chases them away. He can now play with big dogs at the dog park without any problem.

 

His aggression toward bigger dogs at first was my fault, I never exposed him to it, and didn't think about the fact he was only with little dogs.

 

Bottom line the dogs would need to be firmly under the owner and trainers care to be re introduced to proper public behavior.

[F, Calla & Luca]

Glad you are OK.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

How embarrassing to be mauled by a pack of Yorkies!  LOL

[Jennifer,Chloe & Myla]

Darn it!

[Donna K & Quincy]

Do you know what fat ankles are called?

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

kankles - or cankles - however it is spelled.

[Denise & Hunter!!!]

Ok Joanne the girls and I were going to bring our bikes over this week and go for a ride. I am thinking twice now geez! At least tell me what road to watch for the pack on!

Ok but aside from that I think the responsibility falls on the owner and if you have a dog that bites regardless of size you keep it away from society period. If you have to put it down then to bad. Learn to either train your dog or get a fish tank. Kelsey was bit last summer by a dalmation mix and she now has a fear of any spotted dog. She had to go to the hospital and it bothered her for weeks. It just makes my blood boil because they also knew the dog would bite. I think I had more tolerance before but after that happened I have zero. A bite is a bite is a bite period.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Lake Vista and Cox Avenue area.   Actually, they were darlings... kind of.  But they have been barking at me for weeks when I go by and I never thought anything of the little yackers.   This time, they were loose. 

and really, it is hysterical.  But the INTENT to hurt me was obvious!  

[Camilla and Darwin]

I have a pretty harsh view on dog biting, at least when there are children in the home that could be hurt. Personally, if my dog bit (actually bit, not just puppy mouthing) my child ONCE I would immediately rehome. Not put them down of course, but rehome. I know many people would attempt to "train" the child, and train the dog. Well many times children are too young to know what is okay and what isn't. Kids will be kids, and dogs will be dogs.

And doing either (training), especially training dogs with aggression issues, takes a long time. For me, I'm not willing to knowingly put a child at risk of being bitten. For any length of time.

As far as small dog vs big dog, I do think there is a difference. I don't think it's okay for any size of dog to bite, obviously. But I DO think that large breed owners have to be even more diligent in training and socialization, and control. Simply because their dog can do more damage.