Doodle Health Survey

[Stella]

After reading about the doodle that was just diagnosed with Addisons disease, there was some mention of a doodle health survey.  Knowing how many people are on this site, and how passionate everyone is about their doodles, I realised there would be a lot of potential data out there.  The question is, would enough people respond to make it worthwhile, what sort of information should we be collecting, how would we analyse that data, and what would we do with any relevent data that was collected?  What could be done to try and get as many people to respond as possible?  We would also want to make sure that this was done is as scientific way as possible and not for it to become a forum for people to target specific breeders (either for the good or bad).  I was thinking an e-mail survey, or through a site such as Survey Monkey, so that only global results are posted, and not individuals responses.

 

A few thoughts of the top of my head would be - type of doodle, age of doodle, where the doodle came from, info about the parents of that doodle (as much as is known), if the breeder did genetic testing and which conditions did they test for, general health problems that dog has had (ie: dietary/ digestive troubles etc), veterinary diagnosed conditions (epilepsy, addisons, dysplasia etc).  The age of the doodle when these conditions became apparent.  If you have a rescue doodle, you could still take part as we would still be interested in their health.

 

For the data to be actually useful, this would need to be something repeated at regular periods of time in order to see trends in health and illness of our doodles, say annually. 

 

So guys, what do you think??  A worthwhile project?  Or an awful lot of effort for nothing?  In order for this to be effective it would need to be carried out over a long period of time, really trying to follow our doodles right up to when they cross the rainbow bridge.  It would be a huge commitment for those trying to administrate over it!

[F, Calla & Luca]

I don't think they would/could make up such diagnoses except for those with medical knowledge and Munchausen's by Proxy with their dogs. But really, without a vet certified diagnosis we could get a lot of GI or ear  "disorders" that would need a lot lot of, pardon the expression, vetting to sort out. No worthwhile information would come of a survey of owner self diagnosed conditions I think.

[Noble Vestal Labradoodles]

Ahhh it is a new age and information is everywhere with Google and a simple click.  I see it all the time on all of the forums.

 

Not knocking the idea of a survey but just think it can only be done with proof of testing and diagnose from a vet.

[Stella]

Many doodles owners think, or have been told by mis-informed vets, that their dogs have allergies.  But, when you look at the information that Karen has repeatedly posted, most of these dogs don't really.  I would be concerned that many owners would respond saying that their doodles had allergies, when in fact they didn't.  This for sure would skew the results into showing the doodle as an "allergic" type of dog.

[Adina P]

Then perhaps we could assume people are honest and ask the question about conditions sort of like "Has your doodle been diagnosed by a vet with any of the following conditions?  Check all that apply" and then separately ask about 'symptoms' like paw chewing and frequent ear infections or whatever.

[Noble Vestal Labradoodles]

I respectfully disagree.

 

Asking for proof is not out of order and will not prevent owners from reporting, if an owner has taken their dog to the vet for diagnoses a simple printout of the testing and results being signed by a vet at the time the diagnose is presented is simple.

 

An owner may see a dog limp a little and jump to the conclusion that the dog has HD and never seek diagnoses due to vet costs, same for Addisons since the disease produces some very common symptoms.  Epilepsy is a generic term used when the reason for a seizure is unknown, most dog's seizures are very short and can not be taken to the vet in a reasonable amount of time to test blood tox levels and in the majority of cases testing is not done it is instantly labeled when the cause could be environmental.  There are many reasons of how and why people don't take their dog to the vet for proper diagnoes.  Look around people here are always asking "what do you think about this" and "why did my dog do this" or "what causes this"?  People self diagnose all the time and proceed with their beliefs as fact and present it as such.

 

To my knowledge breeders can submit information to the PHR with proof of diagnoses.

 

I am looking for my link to the Doodle Health Registry, I do believe it is part of or a spin off of the PHR.  For me there is already an established DHR and the data can not be misrepresented because it requires proof.

[Adina P]

So what you're saying is we could get 'false negatives' but you haven't given any examples of common false positives.  That would lead to underreporting but very unlikely overreporting of undiagnosed conditions.

[AndySharon BoomerShaynaMariner]

I can only answer this question as to Epilepsy or Seizure Disorders.

 

It is not Epilepsy if the dog only has one seizure, even if the cause is unknown.  Some behaviours owners beleive are seizures are actually something else, such as a dog reacting to underlying pain or a behaviour problem.

 

Some seizures are actually being caused by environmental poisons or other diseases.

 

The other side is those dogs that have seizures that are unrecognized by the owners.  A couple of instances come to mind.  The symptoms of seizure disorders can be very subtle.

[Adina P]

Exactly.  With the exception of 'food allergies' and gastrointestinal or poop issues...there's hardly anyone who would make up some of the diseases you mention.  Why would they?  Most people WANT to believe they got what they paid for and MOST people believe doodles are automatically 'healthier' due to being a mixed breed and tend to believe their dog is healthy unless they have reasons to believe otherwise.

[Adina P]

Thank you for sharing your experience, Kendra. I think that is very valuable. I was not aware of such a database. Are the results viewable to the lay public?  Will it be eventually?

 

Also from what pool were people drawn to fill out the info or report info?  Was it only doodle owners who got doodles from the breeders of those parent clubs?  How did you find the people to contribute info?

 

I think with conditions like 'allergies' and 'gastrointestinal' issues there would very likely be reporting of UNdiagnosed problems that owners suspect but may not have ever looked into thoroughly.  BUT I doubt anyone would make up 'hip dysplasia,' 'entropian, ' or 'addison's'  those are not conditions people self-diagnose.  Not even people who are on forums and have heard of them time and time again.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Nor would anyone make up "atopy". In our AD Support Group, every owner has had the dog diagnosed not only by a vet, but by a board-certified veterinary dermatology specialist. And has posted copies of their test results to boot.

[AndySharon BoomerShaynaMariner]

 

I recently answered a question in the Seizure Group that questioned the frequency of Seizure disorders in Doodles.  Although my answer may not be very scientific, I pointed out that there are only 23 members of the Seizure Group out of a total membership in DK of about 7400 members.  This works out to about 1/3 of 1%.  According to an article on canine epilepsy the overall percentage in dogs is 4%.    It does appear that at least from this small sample our Doodles are healthier than the general population.  http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/seizures/forum/topics/a-little-wo...

I think if you look at any specific disease you will find our Doodles to be healthier.  My thoughts are that many have come from reputable breeders and the owners are more educated in what to look for when getting a Doodle.

 

I am not sure that a survey drawing it's poputation from DK would be statisticly accurate.  Besides the built in biases I believe that there would be a higher incidence of response from people that have pets with problems.

 

 

[Noble Vestal Labradoodles]

I am in total agreement that I do not think it will be statistically actuate because the majority of responders will be those with health issues and a guess is that 95% will have no proof of diagnoses.