Doodle Puppy and older Dog

[Diane Denney]

My Lincoln doesn't play fair with my older dog. I am posting a video here so that you can see what I am talking about. Does anyone have any advice. Please keep in mind that I usually intervene. Will he outgrow this with training? Thanks a bunch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMnY0ao_xLo

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

Well, if the older dog doesn't seem to enjoy the playing, the best advice I have for you is to get another GoldenDoodle puppy so Lincoln will have someone to play with! lol ......... need I say more. Seriously though, this is what I see at my house all the time. The only difference being mine are both goldendoodles, and the same age, so they play all the time. It is mostly Sophie that starts it and sometimes I think Lucy gets a little tired of it, but when she is finished she lets Sophie know. Occassionally they get a little too rough for me and I intervene, but most of the time I just let them go at it (unless they start chasing each other and then it stops if they are in the house). Our girls are 1.5 y/o and it hasn't slowed down yet. Hopefully someone else with an older dog will chime in and let you know what has worked for them!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

How old are the two dogs? Have they been together since Lincoln was a puppy?
I am no expert, but Lincoln's behavior seems quite dominant to me. That mounting is pure dominance, and I am surprised that the Shepherd allows it; he cries out when Lincoln bites him, but doesn't really seem to put him in his place. That's kind of unusual in my experience; usually, an older dog will revoke the younger one's "puppy license" at some point, and make it very clear what the boundaries are. It's kind of hard for me to tell if the Shepherd is trying to get away or if he is a willing participant.
I know they usually say to let the dogs work it out, but I wonder how long that takes. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can advise you.

[Diane Denney]

Scottie (the Shepard Mix) is 6 years old, and Lincoln the Doodle is going to be 9 months on the 28th. They have been together since Lincoln was 4 months old. It seems that Scottie starts it sometimes, but then decides he's too rough. Very confusing. I've seen Scott play with other dogs before and it's not like this. It's much more give and take. I chase you then you chase me kind of thing, and it's fun. Lincoln is full on all the time. He looks like he's trying to be Alpha dog to me so I'm thinking I need to keep them from doing this, and as you saw it's insane anyway as they knock everything over etc...and Scottie doesn't want to play that rough. Hopefully it will work itself out. As far as another puppy goes I don't think my husband would stay married to me!!!!!! LOL

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I think it might be a good idea to have a trainer or behaviorist observe them; it doesn't look like the average housemate give & take playing to me. But again, I'm not an expert.

[Diane Denney]

I already had a behaviorist come in, and she said to keep them separate as it was not fair to Scott. At least until he calms down some I guess. He is still a puppy so I'm sure he will change to some degree as he gets older I hope. I am trying to train him to leave it or leave him. I'm bringing Lincoln to training and I will talk about it with the trainer. My worst fear is that I might have to re-home him. I'm hoping that is not the case. They get along fine together when they are out walking. There is absolutely no animosity between them, and they seem to like each other. I can put them in the same room together while they are chewing bones and they are fine. I wish I was a dog whisperer!!! I've never had two dogs before so I am a newbie and learning as I go.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Diane, I'm sure you won't have to re-home Lincoln. I think training is a great idea.

[Kathie and the gang]

My two Winston (1) and Freya (5.5) play like this a lot and mostly in the house, I have never seen them play in that way outside. It also seems to be and evening thing for my two. They take turns has who is being dominate, and when Freya has had enough she lets Winston know. And when I have had enough I let both of them know, and they do listen. What is interesting is that Winston will not play with other dogs this way, only his housemate, which I think is good. Winston is bigger than Freya, but that doesn't mean that Freya lets Winston get away with stuff. They are good friends and if the ottoman was large enough they would still be sharing it as they did when Winston was a very young puppy. Now they are forced to take turn on who sleeps there.
I have no idea how long this will last, because I have never had two dogs play like this before. My Springer's where joined at the hip, but wanted you to play ball with them; they just never rough housed with each other or other dogs. And Freya as a puppy didn't play with our old Springer like that either, I think she knew that Stella was just to old.

[cheryl & oliver]

Hi, I watched your video and I saw many of the same things that go on here. Oliver is a 7 mo old golden doodle, that is very large, and our Renny is a 12 1/2 yr old Austrailian Shep. Oliver plays rough with Renny too, but when Renny has had enough, he either growls at him or curls a lip at him...Ollie for some reason sees this and backs off...I too used to intervene, I felt so bad for Renny, with this rambunctious puppy, but they have developed a bond with each other, and let me tell you, Renny does not give in too easily, but he has taught Oliver that when he feels enough is enough that is it...If Renny has a toy, and Oliver wants it, Renny ignores him and his whining, and Oliver has learned he can't have it when Renny does...And then there are times when Renny will give it to him with no problem...We got Oliver so Renny would not be lonely, we lost our other dog last year and Renny was just so depressed, we had a lot of problems with his moping and staying in his crate all day...Oliver sure has changed that, lol, they run and play pretty well most of the time, but I do occasionaly have to yell at Ollie to leave him alone...When Ollie was very little he used to grab onto Rennys ear and Renny would drag him around like a stuffed toy, well now Ollie is bigger then Renny, so that has stopped, but there still is some ear chewing, and when Renny gets fed up he lets Ollie know it..Right now they have fallen asleep with their paws and bodies intertwined, but they do have their moments...Hopefully it will get better with your training him, and your saying no and removing him or both from the situation...I wish that your older dog would give him a what for, it would end quickly..Hang in there it will get better, just make sure that you intervene and give Lincoln a loud NO, when u do this, he will get it, if your other dog doesn't do anything to stop it...

[Diane Denney]

No Scottie won't tell him enough. I really wish he would just get him good. He has pinned him down quite a few times by the neck, but Lincoln just doesn't get it!! lol He keeps coming back. I've even cheered Scottie on saying come on do something, but to no avail. We've always said he's a lover not a fighter!!! Scottie has been attacked a couple of times by neighborhood dogs. Our next door neighbors pug bit in in the lip, and the neighbor's dog around the corner bit him in the thigh. Scottie has never retaliated!! Believe it or not Scottie outweighs Lincoln by 20 pounds +, and is very large. They are both pretty big dogs. Last time I check Lincoln weighed 50 pounds. It's time I weigh him again. Scott weighs 80 +- depending on the time of year. I'm sure they have their way of communicating somehow. I do know that some dogs just can't be together, but I don't think that this is the case here. It looks to me like Lincoln really likes Scottie actually, but just doesn't know limitations.

[Jersey, Jasmine, Jypsy and Diane]

Diane~ I have Jessie, a 12 1/2 yr old lab , Jersey, 2 yr old mini golden doodle and Jasmine 7 mon mini goldendoodle. The dogs all play together, mouth wrestling, knocking each other down, much like your video. When Jasmine gets a little too wild with Jessie, I pull her aside and put her in a "dominance down", until she calms down and can play nicely. It seems to work well at my house.She has brought new life into Jessie. Jersey plays very gently with Jessie, so there is no problem there. Good luck, don't give up.

[Ginny Nightingale]

I watched most of the video--but my internet is so slow tonight, its taking too long to load! I have a similar situation with my 1 1/2 year old standard size labradoodle (45 pounds) and my 2 1/2 year old, 36 pound med. doodle, who is much shorter, but stocky. I would have to say that your two guys are fine. My smaller doodle will yip now and then like yours does, but its partly excitement...they really aren't biting hard. I have had my hands between them when they are wrestling and there is very little pressure. Yours look the same. Frankly, my smaller dog likes to be "dominated"--she rolls over on her back and exposes her belly all the time. I can see that Scottie would easily be able to turn around and play back, but seems to choose to let Lincoln jump on his back. I don't think he minds. And believe me, this is NOT rough--my two have gotten much rougher and have never had an injury. I admit, I am not too fussy about rough play in my family room and one will jump up on the top of the old couch and do a wrestlng move by jumping down on the other one from above!!
I would definitely control the time they play and separate them so that the older dog gets a break--my two don't need to be separated anymore, since the 1 1/2 year old is beginning to entertain herself more or take rests more often. She also has to have ALL the toys and Mattie (the older one) never even tries to fight for them--she really doesn't mind if the puppy grabs everything. I also have no trouble with bones and the like. I really think, from what I have read on this site, that things could be much worse. Some people have to separate the dogs whenever they have food or toys.
When I first got the second dog, I never believed it would work out. I was ready to bring her back to the breeder because of her dominant behavior. People on this site told me to give it 2 weeks to a month and things would settle down. They were right on target. Of course, the rough play really bothered me much more than my dog...she was fine with it!
Right this minute, Mattie is trying to sleep next to me on the couch and the pup is practically sitting on her to get closer to me...and so it goes!

[Diane Denney]

Thank you everyone for all of your comments. They really helped me to not worry so much. As I mentioned I'm new at the two dog thing. I think more training is important for Lincoln as he is quite bold. He does have biting issues even with us, and I believe he probably is giving Scottie a pretty good nip, but I'm trying hard to correct that behavior. I really believe he'll settle down when he reaches a certain age. He is a big dog though for nine months. I'm curious to know how much he weighs now. His Mom is the Retriever, and his Dad is the Poodle. His Dad was very tall and around 60 pounds, and his Mom weighed around 60 pounds too. I figure he will be about the same. Scottie is 80 pounds so he could through his weight if he really wanted to I think. Once again thank you everybody!!! Happy Thanksgiving!!!