From Class to Real Life...how do YOU do it?

[Adina P]

I have seen a similar complaint from many doodle owners:

"My labradoodle has been through 3 classes and still pulls on lead"

or

"My goldendoodle has graduated intermediate but still doesn't listen to me most of the time"

So I can't help but wonder...for those of you struggling to achieve reliable obedience, outside of class:

--How much time do you put in daily outside of class?

--Where do you practice outside of class?

--How often do you take your dog out "off duty" for outings, walks, etc...and why?

--Does your trainer actually work with you on problem solving when your results aren't up to par?

So many people come here to ask for solutions and I always wonder "why isn't their trainer helping them solve this?" Not that I mind such questions--I think it's GREAT that we all can get support from each other here and pass on helpful tips/ideas.

I just always wonder how qualified the trainer of the class is if their teaching isn't leading his/her student to success. I teach diabetes classes and would feel like I FAILED (and I know I have in some instances) to do my job if my patients ended up asking their tough questions of all their friends and didn't ask me. Or if patients were struggling and gave up because I didn't explain things well enough. I WANT my patients to push me for help and extra explanations if things don't make sense or they are struggling.

If a trainer knows their stuff...they should be able to work with students when they aren't getting results at home, on the street, etc...and help them fine tune things. If not...something seems off....

I guess I'm curious as to the answers to these questions above because I'm saddened that so many go to classes and pay hundreds of dollars and come home with the same problems as before. I don't think your doodles are broken and I don't think YOU are broken :-D But I do think something is missing.

Not that my dogs are perfect. I'm still working on Thule's reliability and polishing Rosco, but I know what we have to do. I don't voice our training conundrums except when I talk to a couple trainers I trust because I found what works for me and it does work for me...it's just a matter of time to get each dog to their higher level. Anyway...my answers are below to the questions above.

[Adina P]

--How much time do you put in daily outside of class?
When I hunkered down and got serious it was 5-6 days per week...about 1 hour per day...for at least 3 months. I eased off after that...but the initial investment was HUGE.

--Where do you practice outside of class?
EVERYWHERE dogs were allowed. Sometimes very low distraction fields when teaching a new thing. Sometimes very distracting places when polishing old things. And we threw things in around the house...but rarely was "home" the main place we practiced. I think it's important to remember that most dogs, over the course of a 6-8 week class, will do better and better in class because it is no longer a 'novel' environment. So it's less and less distracting each week. But if that's the only distracting environment in which you practice, it won't suffice for real life.

--How often do you take your dog out "off duty" for outings, walks, etc...and why?
RARELY. When I was seriously working Rosco...outings were for the purpose of training. But our outings were long and he got enough walking and mental exercise that it was enough for him. I cheated a couple times for doodle romps I'd planned in advance, but wouldn't do it again. It wasn't worth setting us back when we were spending so much time training otherwise.

My point of view is that until your dog is as trained as you want him/her to be, casual walks and casual outings where anything goes and the dog is allowed to behave in ways you don't want him to behave are a bad idea. ESPECIALLY if you badly want obedience. ESPECIALLY if you actually use commands in those times that you are unable to reinforce (correct, reward...whatever you do in training). My opinion is you should plan your outings TO BE training opportunities. Whether you want it to be or not...all outings ARE actually training moments. If you're not prepared to lead the training moment...your dog will just get more training doing the wrong thing.

--Does your trainer actually work with you on problem solving?
I didn't actually attend classes but used a book and video. But it was not easy! I got stuck a couple times. I participated in a training email list and eventually a trainer on there had pity on my struggling and offered to help me by phone and video and email. So several times a week we'd talk and I'd relay to him specifically how we were doing and he'd help me problem solve and move ahead in a timely manner. He was a LIFESAVER and I can't even imagine going to a class where there was not some problem solving help.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I plead the fifth. Despite that my trainer always tried to solve problems and often did. She also would set aside time for specific requests like getting the dog to hop in the car.

[Adina P]

LOL...no fair pleading the 5th!
But glad to know you had a helpful trainer willing to put in extra time :)

[Libby & Bentley]

--How much time do you put in daily outside of class? Probably equivalent to a couple of hours daily. We do training sessions in short increments to keep Bentley's attention. We do our usual trainings each day, and then mix it up with going to a variety of settings, etc

--Where do you practice outside of class? Everywhere~home, yard, all the neighborhoods nearby, pet store, parks, family's houses, neighbors yards with kids across street there for distraction, etc etc etc

--How often do you take your dog out "off duty" for outings, walks, etc...and why? He's never really "off duty" as every experience we have I expect a certain level of behavior out of him..and try to turn each outing into a training experience. While he gets play trips to my brother's house, etc..we use them as training experiences to listen with the distraction of a child and another puppy..etc.

--Does your trainer actually work with you on problem solving when your results aren't up to par? Start obedience school tommorow...so not applicable.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

"--How often do you take your dog out "off duty" for outings, walks, etc...and why? He's never really "off duty" as every experience we have I expect a certain level of behavior out of him"

This is the only part of this topic that's applicable for Jack & I, and I agree completely with Libby's answer. Our 2x/day walks are always training exercises besides being enjoyable walks. Jack is pretty well trained in terms of obeying commands reliably and he never jumps on people, steals food, goes in the garbage, etc. But he does bark and lunge at certain strange people and dogs, and we are always working on this as part of daily life. And he does have fear issues that cause reactive behavior. We don't really have formal training sessions in the sense that all we are doing for a set period of time is practicing training exercises. But he's never "off-duty" in terms of getting away with unacceptable behavior, whether we're taking a walk, going to the pet supply store, or even at a romp.

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

Well I have ever only been to one session of puppy classes. And it seems the atmosphere is more conducive to learning and 'walking the line' there than at home. Abby was almost spot on. All those dogs, all that fear, the scary trainers LOL! The stressful environment had her looking at me with "oh boy what did I do to deserve this, I will do anything you want to make you happy" ...I guess she preforms well under pressure. At home it is a more relaxed environment LOL! No need to walk the line.

Also use it or lose it I guess. I have been bad about practicing any of the stuff I learned, at home. It is too easy to put it off when you have 101 other things to do. I know she would be like a TV dog, easy, she is that smart! If I only put my mind to keeping on top of it, but alas I let it fall by the wayside with my mending. At least Abby doesnt just get tossed in the rag bin after sitting in the "to mend" box for a year. LOL

[Adina P]

LOL---and that's fine. If you're satisfied with her obedience all is well. It's just that so many people still have issues they stress about...if a behavior is a problem for someone then obedience training can NOT be put on a shelf. There's just no way around training to make it quick and easy---even the supposed "easy" and "quick" training is a lot of work.

I guess I just wonder...(not directed toward you specifically but anyone):
WHY pay for training classes (when they are merely intended to teach the humans how to train their dog) and NOT practice? It's like buying a required textbook in college and never reading it. You have the book...why waste time reading it when osmosis will do just fine? Isn't the point of training classes to help you (again the global you) have a trained dog--led by an expert who can help guide you when you run into specific problems (as most normal people will)?

Do people really expect attending a class will magically yield an obedient dog that won't drag his owner down the street, jump on guests, etc?

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

"I guess I just wonder...(not directed toward you specifically but anyone):
WHY pay for training classes (when they are merely intended to teach the humans how to train their dog) and NOT practice? "

Hope - it is all about hope!

You go to the puppy class, and HOPE beyond all hope that from that day on your puppy will come up to you and say "Mother...may I fetch you the paper, Mother?" or "Mother there is someone at the door, I will let out one and only one appropriate bark in order to alert you then I will go lie down Mother, and let you do the rest. I would not even dream of jumping on the visitor Mother, for I am a dog with dignity now that I have been to puppy class. Thankyou so much for taking me dearest Mother"

[Adina P]

'Yes dear child...you may fetch me the paper.'

LMAO...I like this fantasy pup :)

[Adina P]

It's sad really. Where did this idea stem from? That we can have whatever we want with no time investment? Why do people take on so incredibly much to juggle?

The child birth class we started that had 9 couples signed up had only 2 others (besides us) the first day. No-one else the 2nd day.

The patients I get who 'will do anything to lose weight' come once and I give them something easy and they rarely do their assignment.

The thing that KEEPS me going to my preggo swim class IS that I did pay and that I made a commitment.

[Candace Lockett]

Ha! For the same reason we pay for the gym but don't go, buy a treadmill and don't use it, read a diet book and don't follow it. We want to pay a fee, get a magic pill, and sit back and let the good times roll!

Or as Abby&Kaela put it, "it is all about HOPE."

And yes, many people really think attending an obedience class will magically yield an obedient dog.

[Gina and Finn]

Well here is an issue I am having regarding pullling. I have decided that I am fine with a prong collar and believe it to be an effective training tool. I have watched other dogs in our basic obedience class respond very well to it- no signs of pain, fear etc. I have also discussed it with at least a dozen dog owners I have met in our walking travels in parks. I bought one and am finding that it is constantly catching in his long hair and now wonder if it will not work until after a haircut. Finn is 7 months and has not yet had his curly ( almost spiral) fleece coat cut. I know I need to cut it -soon. In the meantime the collar will not slide around properly and a proper fit is difficult. When loose it gets caught and even turns over sometimes so then no prong effect. It is hard to see through his beautiful coat . He is doing much better overall-regardless of collar-with me. However I want my youngest daughter who is 12 to be able to control him effectively when he pulls to go see other dogs or people during a neighborhood walk. He is a puppy still, and is almost 50 lbs ,so he is strong - too much responsibility for a little girl if he is not properly trained.He is a gentle friendly dog but for a stranger he is big enough to be intimidating if he is trying so hard to get to them. Any one else find the length of coat to be an interference with prong collars?
I only use it on walks where I know we see a lot of distractions.Is that the problem? Consistency? Seriously, he is a family dog and I cannot let them all pass off to me the walking. He needs and should get as much as possible from all.