GREAT DEAL ON GOOD OL' AMISH GOLDENDOODLE AND LABRADOODLE PUPPIES --- UPDATED

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

That's right folks, Amish Puppies are for sale at bargain prices.  I live just one county down the road from 1,000 and 1,000 of Doodle Puppies!  If I drive an hour south, I can get  you a doodle for a lot less money!

Who could resist buying a puppy from good, God-Fearing Christians? 

It's time once again to remind our newest members and those who are looking to get a beautiful puppy not to support the Amish by purchasing a puppy.  While not to harp on this subject we should bring it up once a year. You know, kind of like that mandatory safety meeting we all have to attend at work each year  :)  Ugh.  But it is important as a group to know all of this information. It is important to be a member of this site, know this information, have it posted around here somewhere, and then pass the word.  It should come up more often.   Too many new members, too many new puppies being bred, too many sick, too many sick puppies, too many looking for the $600 not the $2600 dog, too many sick puppies around here.  We are seeing it everyday here. It is time to review.

The Amish make great barns, furniture,  and quilts.  Not puppies. 

Folks, I do not want to know where your puppy is from. I had an Amish Puppy Myself.  I just want to remind others to spread the word and educate new members.

The following is really benign.  If you want to research more  yourself, have at it.  There is plenty on the internet.

UPDATE:  I DELETED THE LONG DISCUSSION.  WHO NEEDS MY EMOTION. I THOUGHT FACTS WOULD BE BEST.

HERE IS A SEGMENT BY NIGHTLINE.  SOMEONE MORE REPUTABLE.  AN EASY WATCH AND INFORMATIVE.

IT IS HARD ENOUGH AROUND HERE, WITHOUT ADDING RELIGION AND CULTURES.

SO LETS GO EASY ON EACH OTHER.

FEEL FREE TO DELETE YOUR COMMENTS... OR WHATEVER. REMEMBER THIS IS TO GET THE WORD OUT THERE.

 

The next time some wonderful, unsuspecting new member signs on, direct them to this link

Thank you so much for your patience.

 See you all at next  years mandatory meeting

 

 

NEED MORE CREDIBLE INFORMATION:

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/09/20/us/amish-at-heart-of-puppy-mill-d...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaNelTLw4f4

 

http://amishamerica.com/tag/puppy-mills/

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=7187712&page=1#.UA4IlKC...

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/puppy-mill-ads-banned-facebook-marke...

 

NIGHTLINE

[Cheryl and Finnegan]

I must be doing something wrong...DK keeps dumping my reply.  But yes, this is the link.  Thank you for posting it.

[Bonne Bouche]

Karen, this sounds like a ridiculous question, but how can i tell if a breeder is a "puppy mill". I was certain BB's breader was a legit breeder (saying on her website litters were born in her bedroom and showered with affection from birth), and I did tons of research and even got reports from goldendoodles.com (this was before DK). When I arrived to pick up BB (after my $$ deposit) i got pm vibes, yet fell in love with BB and left with him.

Others from DK have puppies by this breeder, and said they met their mother (though I was stupid and never did). Reports on the website I posted show 35-60(!) adult dogs on premise during inspections between 2006-2012. Way more than I would have guessed, as I saw zero :-[ surprisingly, the license reports 51-100 puppies per year, that doesn't seem that high to me, actually, considering litters can be ~10 puppies each... what exactly qualifies a breerder as a puppy mill: number of dogs, condition of dogs, number of litters, health standards, where the puppies go, etc... It seems it is a blurry line...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, labels like "puppy mill" are very vague, and there is no exact definition. There's no checklist of what qualifies a breeding operation as a puppy mill, but the overriding qualities to me would be the conditions, the number of dogs, the number of litters, the health care and health testing, and an overall sense that the main reason for breeding is to sell puppies. Hyperbole about "perfect" dogs is a red flag. lack of questions about you, the buyer, is another red flag. What the breeder says on the website means absolutely nothing; obviously, nobody is going to say "born in a pig trough in the barn", lol. Some of the most horrendous puppy mills ever had websites with pictures of rose-covered cottages and beuatiful children cuddling healthy looking puppies. You have to get outside confirmation, and I'm not familiar enough with goldendoodles.com to know if that site gives you any meaningful information, either.

If a breeder advertises on the "puppy find" type sites, that's a red flag. An example of the kind of sites I mean are:

http://www.puppyfind.com/for_sale/?breed_id=156

http://www.nextdaypets.com/directory/dogs/sale/1100300/

http://www.dogsnow.com/goldendoodleillinois.htm

And if a breeder advertises on a broker site, it's a puppy mill. Examples of broker sites:

http://www.pups4kids.com/

http://goldendoodle.illinoispuppiesforsale.com/view-puppies/?awkw=g...

To be honest, I never have and never would deal with a breeder who produced 10 litters a year, but the world of purebred breeders is very different from the world of mixed breed breeders. I would insist not only on seeing the health testing on the parents, but also I would insist on seeing the vet records for the puppy. If there are none, if the breeder has done all of the vetting and the puppy has never been seen by a licensed vet, that to me is a red flag.

On-line searches for the breeder's full name as well as the kennel name can turn up a lot.

And I hate to say it, but price tells a lot, too. The legitimate breeders do not sell puppies for $600, or $800, or even $1000.

You do want to see the premises, and I mean all of the premises, not just the front yard. You want to meet the mother, and preferably the father, and you want to see where the adult dogs live. I would never give a non-refundable deposit for a dog without visiting first. And I would not deal with any breeder who would not let me visit first.

It is a blurry line, and that's why I would just have to know who I was dealing with first.

[Bonne Bouche]

Thanks Karen for your thorough response. It upsets me how easy it is to be "duped", and I feel like I attempted a thorough investigation, asking all the "proper" questions and whatnot. Now, i'm happy to have DK, with a fantastic network of highly reputable breeders for doodle #2 whenever it is time for her. ;-]

Its too late at this point for this breeder, regardless. At several times here on DK others have mentioned this breeder and I've shared my concerns honestly. I'm just thankful that BB is (so far) very healthy, and the vet continues to tell me his physical condition is "superior" and his hip have good range of motion, etc. sigh...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

With health, you never know. I always have to smile when someone says "I would recommend Soandso Breeder, our puppy is very healthy", because most serious illnesses don't show up until a dog is 2 or 3 or even older. There are dogs from "good" breeders that have developed serious illnesses and dogs from pet stores that live long heathy lives. You can only stack the deck in your favor, but it can still be a crap shoot.

There are issues besides health that can be affected when you buy from a puppy mill or BYB. Temperament is a big one. So many of the issues that have people tearing out their hair are often related directly to what kid of early experiences the puppy had, what kind of socialization, etc. Biting, nipping, fear issues, shyness, responsiveness to training, housebreaking, all of these things are greatly influenced by what kind of environment the puppy lived in before he came home.

[Bonne Bouche]

That is interesting about health, I didn't realize the serious illnesses developed after 2 (when most(all?) breeder's warranty expires). Though I guess it makes sense that the genetics of health can't ever be fully perfected, in people or dogs..

In the Puppy Madness forum there are so many recent posts just like you are saying. And it makes me sad to see how upset/frustrated they are. For the record, BB has the most amazing temperament, and we never had more than a "normal" amount of puppy nipping issues, he is incredibly easily trainable, and never afraid of anything. I joke with my husband its that we are such great owners, but in seriousness, his breeding and early socialization likely had a significant role, hence my hesitation to fully believe our breeder was "that bad".

P.s. Also JD's nose on your page is adorable ;-] LOVE those doodlenoses!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I can link you to many purebred standard poodle breeders websites that have a 5 year genetic health warranty. These are show breeders who rarely have more than one litter a year, if that.

I also don't think it sounds like your breeder was "that bad", but then again, some amazing people have come out of some really horrendous circumstances, and some amazing dogs, too. JD was from a puppy mill, no doubt about it, and his temperament is amazing (along with his nose.) Maybe you and your DH are great owners, lol. I know I am. :)))

[Bonne Bouche]

haha so true! ;-] Thanks, Karen

[Cheryl and Finnegan]

Hi Carla - Just want to say that I agree with everything Karen's said.  I learned a lot looking for a doodle puppy.  After some hard learned lessons, and some broken rose colored glasses, my checklist looked like this:

To the best of my ability, I wanted to find a healthy, well socialized, pup with a good temperament. And I wanted to only pay my hard earned money to someone knowledgeable enough to breed the best pups they could and caring enough to know and take care of their breeding dog(s) in a loving responsible way.  Vet reports & health certifications like OFA, PRA, etc. are no guarantee, but they show me the breeder cares enough to try to breed healthy dogs.  Checking references and with other breeders also a really good idea. Meeting the parents gives you an idea of temperament. And pups that have been raised in a family have had a lot of love and handling from the start. 

BB sounds wonderful.  If we're talking about the same breeder and we might be, (puppies born by my bed, blah blah blah), let me put your mind to rest. I didn't find any evidence that this breeder was breeding sick dogs.  I contacted about 8 people who got dogs from her.  All healthy.  All great dogs. I know 2 people who we pack walk with sometimes and they have nice dogs from this breeder. They're 1st generation hybrids so they have hybrid vigor going for them. But as I said, I stumbled upon the fact that the breeding dogs were living in deplorable conditions.  When I eventually (respectfully, I think) confronted the breeder with the inspection reports she was stunned and angry that the reports were made public--  denied them -- but STILL wouldn't show me the kennels.  Don't you think that would have cleared up the whole issue??? I really wanted the puppy.  Screamed at me, threatened lawsuits all around, HUH?   The breeder later apologized but Yikes! Such craziness. I left that whole situation saying God if you want me to have a dog you better drop it on my back porch :)  I am soooo done.

But here's the sorta good news.  When you posted the link I went back to check on this breeder (it's been over 2 years). Double Wahoos!! Maybe that whole experience turned out ok. I always wondered if I should have done more. But the most recent report shows that the kennels have been rebuilt, repairs made, they are now larger and safer, the dogs have heat in the winter, exercise yards, and NO report of matted, dirty dogs.  It might not be the Hilton, but that made my day!!!  Thanks Carla.  Hugs to BB:)

[Carol and Banjo]

Just seeing this today Joanne.....I always seem to be late to these annual meetings!    Thanks SO MUCH for reminding us....and may I add - to anyone who may be thinking with their heart rather than their head.....do not make the mistake of "saving" one of these puppies....thinking it's your duty to give the puppy a better life.   All you are doing is PERPETUATING the cruelty and putting money into the pockets of monsters.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

In a search for Amish puppy mills, I came across the website of a company that sells Amish merchandise (heirlooms, they call them) and who actually had a very commendable statement on their site acknowledging that they are aware of Amish and Mennonite puppy mills and have a policy of not doing business with any craftsperson who runs a mill:

http://www.amishdelights.com/puppypolicy.html

Since these people are Amish themselves, I find this admirable.

 

[Lisa, Daisy & Dexter]

SWEET!!!!!

That is awesome.