Help Needed for Adoptee/Adopter Help Me Help This Owner/Dog

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

A few weeks ago I went to the shelter to rescue a 14 month old female doodle and met a wonderful man who arrived 2 minutes before me and was first then for adoption of LACEY. May I say he was wonderful, he so much wanted this dog, and would offer it a much better home than I ever could. It all seemed good.

We promised to keep in touch and we have. I have asked him to join us here or on DRC or DK but he wont for some reason??? I really wish he would.

He is having a really rough time with a few issues that I want to put out for advice.

There is no history. She was a stray found roped to a tree at an abandoned home in a bad part of town. She was spotted and reported by a concerned driver as she drove to work each morning. She was believed to be pregnant--but spay at the shelter. Her teeth were filed during the surgery! The pound said she was not a great candidate for a good adoption.

Lacey will not go out. She shakes, cowers, and will barely empty her bladder. She also will NOT go inside the home either. At this time he is picking her up and taking her out but it becomes and emotional ordeal for both of them. She is petrified of the leash so he stopped taking her out on the leash also. This did not remedy the situation.

With our last conversation I recommended puppy pads, poochie bells, and contacting a trainer. Any other ideas for any of you on the bathroom situation?

She does not know how to play. Even squeaky toys spook her. She makes poor social contact in the home--she presents most days in a catatonic stare..... but this to me seemed not unusual and may come around. She is............... great in the stores, in cars and he takes her to work. She likes people, especially women. She does exhibit submissive urination with both. She cowers on many situations. She could care less about other dogs. She does not interact or play with them but does not care if they are around.

Another point: He has bought clothes for her, 10 different types of food, new bed,and everything you can think of to welcome this dog into his home. Is he trying to hard? Leave her be for awhile and let her come around on her own time. He has expressed concerns about whether this adoption will work out.

It is just in his home where she is not happy. My opinion is that this new home where she feels safe, a place where she can finally get some much needed rest to recover from spay, the shelter, and the poor life she had before. She is exhausted and needs quiet time to recover and she will come around. Your opinion on this?

What do you think about the potty situation and her social state at home? I need you to help me help him. One great advice I was given is that she needs to be ignored for awhile, and he should just drop treats.

Anyone have a dog that just did not match with their home? Can this be resolved? Will she come around? Potty training issues? How long did it take your new foster or adopted dog to adjust?

Advice, Opinions, or kicks in the butt are welcomed.

Thanks Joanne

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It does take a lot of time, depending on the dog. Lacey must have had a very rough start in life. It is not helpful to spend time speculating on what happened to her in the past, though. That will probably show itself in her actions as time goes by.
Jack would not eliminate at all for 36 hours after I adopted him, and I don't know how long he went before that. Even today, almost 4 years later, he will only poop on a walk, not in the backyard. We manage. He also still doesn't really "play"...he retrieves balls and that's it. This past year, he has begun to play a little bit with two AKC brand stuffed animals. Every once in a while, he has a burst of "zoomie" energy, and then he abruptly stops dead still and crouches as if he thinks he's going to be punished for forgetting himself. He has finally gotten over his extreme fear of the outdoors, including birds, rabbits, trash cans, garage doors, lawn ornaments, and large rocks. But it took many many months, and lots and lots of gentle exposure. Trust takes time, and the more betrayal of trust in the past, the longer it takes to develop in new situations.
I have known of a foster/adopted doodle who hid in a closet for a month in his foster/adoptive home. I knew of one who wouldn't allow anyone to come near him for weeks at first. In both cases, the advice was to leave them alone, and that proved to be the correct answer. They are both loving responsive pets now, (also both foster failures, lol) although they still have, and will probably always have, some issues.
Time is truly the greatest healer, and the greatest bond-developer. Have the gentleman try a Gentle leader EZ Walk harness...NOT a head harness...to help with the leash problem.
I believe this dog will adjust and become very attached to her new owner. It will happen. She has to learn to believe in him, and he has to learn to believe in her. It takes time.
I wish them the greatest good luck.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

God Love You Karen--I do. Thanks
I know he comes here to read, but will not join. So Jim, keep reading, I hope to fill this page with advice for you.

[F, Calla & Luca]

What a helpful and nice response, Karen.

[Adina P]

I emailed someone I know who does a lot of rescue and was able to turn a completely scared, practically feral dog around. She might be willing to contact you privately. She also knows doodles. In the meantime, some of my two cents...which may or may not be that helpful.

Sounds like she'll just have to viewed as feral and treated as such... She'll need some major time to learn to trust him. He'll need to be extremely patient and know just when to push a teeny bit and when to give her her space. I imagine a dog like this would benefit greatly from a very structured routine as far as schedule. So she can predict things and feel like she has some control over her life. I would still be afraid to NOT leash her for fear she'd bolt...but if she pretty much just freezes, maybe not?

I don't think she's capable of dealing with poochie bells yet. I think that takes much more confidence and trust and a brain that's not frozen from fear.

I wouldn't worry about her ability to play...that would be VERY low on my priority list. She may never learn to play the way our doodles do...but that's OK and needs to be accepted. Not all dogs play and lack of play doesn't mean unhappiness or something we need to feel sorry about. This dog has much bigger issues than lack of play.

I think the fact she doesn't fear or care about other dogs is not a bad thing. She probably feels MORE comfortable around them than around people. Perhaps spending time in the company of a very stable dog that DOES trust people might be beneficial to her. If she sees that stable dog interact positively with humans, it might, over some time help her learn to trust humans too.

He's trying toooo hard with the bazillion THINGS he's buying. Dogs don't give a rats patooty about clothes or how fancy a bed is or whether it's new ... and she's not ready for toys. What she needs is to learn that this guy is predictable and trustworthy. That takes time as she obviously has not had a predictable, trustworthy human in her life so WHY should she trust him? He has to give her a doggy reason to trust him and that has NOTHING to do with special foods or clothes. He needs to be a solid rock of trustworthiness. He needs to be predictable. She needs a schedule and structure that she can expect day in and day out. I think he needs to stuff his "poor baby" feelings for her and be that rock she can depend on. He can feel sorry for her when he's away from her, but not in her presence.

I don't understand your statement about her ONLY being unhappy in his home. What other homes has she been observed in? I don't think this is an issue, on the surface anyway, of a bad match. I would imagine this dog might be similar in most circumstances, don't you think? Have you seen him interact with her? Does he constantly try to cajole her or bribe her? Is he constantly bugging her or does he give her some space?

She may come around with A TREMENDOUS amount of patience and a lot of experiences that teach her that she won't die in new situations (when she's ready for them). She may never be 'normal' but may turn out to be a loving pet to him.

[Chris & Boys]

Joanne,
I don't know squat about how to help this dog, but I know he has to give her some time and NOT give up on her. I personally think that would make it even tougher on her, not to mention it may make it harder to rehome her. I wish the both of them the best of luck!

[Adrianne Matzkin]

I think this man has the heart to give her but not wanting to wait. From what I am reading between the lines, he wants a 'perfect' doodle - not one with pyschological issues. She is happy at his place of business but not at home. She cowers - I am sure as I can be that she had been abused in someone's home.
I have been getting updates on a DRC resuce that had some of these same issues - kitchens were her biggest fear. We will never know why but it just is. She would never take food from her owner's hand. She would not poop in their yard. I am happy to report that with the help of DK member and a Certified Trainer (a trainer who has a degrees in training) this Doodle now does poop in her yard (tho no one can watch), eats out of her Mom's hand, and her food bowl has moved from the family room to the doorway of the kitchen. Amazing!! It has taken at least a month of weekly training, constant work from Mom and she has been able to come this far. It will take much longer for her to eat in the kitchen but who cares how long that takes. She is playing and a happy Doodle with issues. She may never get rid of all her issues but that is something this family can live with - they just adore her!!
If a family is not willing to work this hard to have their rescue Doodle adjust to life in their home, then in my humble opinion she should find a home that will.
Some recommendations:
walk by her and drop a high value treat (no eye contact, nothing said, just drop it)- Doodle mind says he walks bye and I get a treat. She will come to realize very quickly that he gives the treats.
Forget the damned clothes - she is not a doll - she is a wounded animal
Stick to 1 good kibble and slowly introduce it. Add home cooked chicken - she will eat it.
NEVER NEVER take her out without a leash! There is already 1 missing rescued Doodle that bolted out of extreme fear!
I think Adina's idea of a chest harness is great! Obviously she has some kind of issue with a neck collar. OR is it just the leash?? Hmmm
Never look at her face to face - in the dog world that is very rude and could be scary for her
A dog behaviorist is a must for this girl. Someone who has worked with scared, rescues before and can help with her psychological issues - not necessarily training ie: sit, down, stay
I hope and pray that this family will give her the time, patience and the professional help she needs to understand that this new home is a safe place to let her guard down so she can enjoy her new family as much as they want to enjoy her!

[Debbie, Brianna and Duncan]

Jim, Blessings to you and Lacey....time, love, acceptance, and training (the right kind). If you can find a trainer that is also a behaviorist, understands shy/fearful dogs and dogs from rescue or past history of abuse. That would be very helpful. One that will line you up with a class that would Not introduce her to more fearful or reactive situations (having aggressive dogs in the class or overly excited to meet your dog) or an actual shy/fearful class (note though-this can be a very bad class if the trainer is not good or knowledgeable of the S/F/reactive dog. So interview your trianer(s). Educate everyone in your family so they are on the same page. Please don't get discouraged, we have had s/f dogs who over time, patients, and FULL acceptance of who they are at every stage of healing, got much better! One thing that fell in our favor is I found a trainer/behaviorist who taught a shy/fearful class. I attended other classes from her with my non fearful dogs and love her style. But at first when I attended her s/f dog class I was skeptical .....but after attending, these where extremely helpful I have to say. She teaches and uses Ttouch therapy (awesome in my opinion) google it and see maybe they list a trainer in your area and can be used at home when you are relaxing, out when she is stressed and during any training class, and aroma therapy -(My thoughts on this is it is 'questionable', but I could be wrong) and the DAP collars (pheromone) which is to be worn and changed every four months (Couldn't hurt to try) In the class they start off with other S/F dogs but run each exercise with a partisan at first so as not to create a fearful environment, but build confidence in safe situations among other, and as the classes go on, the barricades come down...they also spend many breaks using the Ttouch, and then back to more safe exercises of counterconditioning. I can say it can take a very long time, slow changes and there are sometimes many backslides and that is ok . I can't even begin to think or believe I have your answers, please be patient, read info, hope you find help, ... love her, sometimes that road can be very long, but sooooo worth the ride for her and you. ps. thanks for posting a picture, Lacey is a beautiful girl.

[Debbie, Brianna and Duncan]

thought I would share some links, Ttouch...for dogs and all animals

http://www.bestfriends.org/archives/forums/080805shy.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Getting-TTouch-Your-Dog-Behavior/dp/157076206...

http://www.ttouch.com/whyTTouch.shtml

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

Lots and lots of patience, time and treats. He should keep treats in his pockets at all times and reward the slightest sign of desired behavior. For example cominng in the room with him, walking in the house anywhere near him etc. Try to condition her to a specific sound with treats. A tongue click (least likely to cause fear as not frequently used by others) = treat. Condition her many times a day over a week or more. At the first sign of fear, stop and in a few days try a different conditioner. When she truly equates click=treat=good. Take an entire day off and sit quietly in the yard all day with her. Provide water and lovely salty treats. Play click and treat when she wanders near, but spend most of his time, reading or staring into space, not at her. When she pees,really pees - treat and click That might be a break through. In the meantime clean up all pees and poops without any comment at all, as if he were picking up a dropped kleenex. Make sure he knows that you will take her if he is not up to it. It is going to take a lot of patience. If he succeeds, she will be his best friend for all her life.

Leave the dog clothes in the closet - she has enough issues.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

"Take an entire day off and sit quietly in the yard all day with her."
This is so important, yet so many people never think about it. (I didn't.) Just to "be" with each other, to be within each other's space, quietly, is such an important part of building the bond of trust.
In fact, the current issue of BARK magazine has an article about this exact thing! It's called The Art of Training, and it is about trust building techniques as practiced by Marilyn Pona, founder of Assistance Dogs for Living. I highly recommend it!

[Kyoko]

I like this idea.

[Adina P]

I totally agree with the sentence you quoted! People get to know each other via conversation...dogs I think benefit from just time observing you and getting to know you by your presence. NO pressure to play or touch or for the dog to DO anything or the human to DO anything...just hang out.