Help needed for breaking this terrible habit...

[Frances Pendrous (Horan)]

Hi peoples. I know I have mentioned this before, but now it has got serious. Frankie Girl turned 2 years old two days a go so I guess her habits are pretty much etched in stone. Sadly, she still has this terrible OCD regarding lizards and bunnies, which are out in full-force right now. The other day, whilst doing our morning walk, she spotted a bunny and practically pulled my arm right out the socket as I did not see or was expecting it. For the next week, I could not move my arm nor my neck. I also have a duo lead, which sweet Johnny (who is not at all interested in them) was also attached. My question is how on earth can I desensitize her to NOT be interested in these darn things. I feel that the lab in her just completely takes over and then is no stopping her. She does not respond to her name or being jerked on the leash and told "NO" or "LEAVE It" it is like she is possessed....Should I take her back to training classes that may specialize in this sort of behavior or has anyone got any great ideas. Between the two of them I am walking 164lb of dog daily and being middle aged, 5ft 2 tall and 115lbs this is becoming a nightmare as I am so scared of getting seriously injured by this behavior and I am truly am regretting getting such a large girl as we adore her but it is coming to the point that we cannot handle her OCD. Apart from that, she is a passive, gentle giant who would not harm a fly. Even when we attend the doodle romps (which we are going to tomorrow) she is not interested in playing with other dogs, she just sits on the out side of the park awaiting the dreaded bunnies...Please help..I am pretty desperate.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Frances, I do feel your pain.  That's exactly how Murphy was when he would spot another dog.  It was a huge problem, because he is much stronger than I am.  It has actually taken us months of training to overcome this (that's the bad news), but now I AM able to walk both dogs even around lots of other dogs (that's the good news).  I really don't think an obedience class would help, because he would not encounter his "trigger" (the bunny) during the class....you wouldn't be able to proof against it.  If you can find a private trainer who would actually walk with you in an area where he is very likely to see bunnies and lizards, I think that he/she would be able to help you to know how to react in these situations. It might only take a couple of lessons.  If that's not an option, maybe you'd want to join the training group and post this as a discussion.  There are lots of members of that group who have some great training experience, and could help you to develop a training plan specifically aimed at addressing Frankie's reactiveness with "the critters".

[Frances Pendrous (Horan)]

Thanks Jane. I think I am going to look into getting someone in to work with her regarding this. The problem I now have is finding someone who is reputable and worth the money as these people do not come cheap. Maybe as you said it would only take a few lessons....we can only hope. I will most definitely join the training group. Thank you.

[Jennifer Tramell]

If you are just using a flat collar, I recommend getting a pinch collar.  There are others on this site who can give you details about the pinch collar, I can only give you my experience.  My Charlotte was 7 months old when she started a 4H Obedience class.  The trainer wanted everyone in a pinch collar and I about had a fit (not in public, just to my hubby).  Cruelty! My girl didn't need something so harsh!  Fortunately, several DKers assured me that this is a GOOD training tool so I got one.  Charlotte was only 45 lbs but she did pull and I would end every dog walk with a back/shoulder ache.  Now, with the pinch collar, Charlotte walks quite nicely.  The collar gives a self-correction, I don't need to pull and jerk.  As soon as Charlotte pulls, she has an instant reminder NOT to pull.  It has only been 2 months but Charlotte is now a pleasure to walk when wearing the training collar and she is much better when wearing a flat collar.  My goal is for perfect walks without the pinch collar and we are well on our way.

I don't think that 2 years old is too old for training/learning.  Frankie is just an adult, perhaps she is at the perfect age to make better choices & the pinch collar will remind her instantly not to escalate into the frenzy.  Good luck & don't give up!  :-)

[Frances Pendrous (Horan)]

Thanks Jennifer. Sadly, we have so many different collars and leashes we could open a store. When Frankie gets into her OCD mode regarding a bunny or a lizard it is like she is obsessed and no collar in the world (apart from maybe a shot collar and I refuse to do that) will break the moment. Apart from her size, she also has a very, very thick curley coat which protects her from feeling the pinch collar too. I am going to join the training group and see what suggestions others have come up with but I feel I may have to pay out for a private trainer to walk her...

 

[Jennifer,Chloe & Myla]

Myla is the same way with squirrels she will just go crazy and she always sees them before we do!! If we try to turn around or cross the street she just jumps up screaching and bititng at her leash to go in the direction of the distraction. Last night we walked and she saw one on a porch of a house so we just kept walking as fast as we could, on the way back we were on the opposite side fron=m where she saw it. She knew exactly which house/porch he was on! Incredible hey??? Anyway, they are on the pinch collars and it has no effect on her when she is in that stage! She actually sounds like we are killing her if we don't walk to see where he went. People stare at us and we just say SQUIRREL! The classes won't have the proper distraction, maybe a personal behaviorist like the others said to walk with you.

[Jennifer and Jack]

Jack's trigger is cats and squirrels and I think because of how tiny he is I have been able to yank him away and correct him. I could not do that on a dog that weighs more then 12 pounds. I feel for you. I know my trainer is a big fan of the pinch collars and a lot of the people in Jacks first two classes (not his last) reluctantly put one on, and not one of them would take it off after trying to walk with it.

 

Even though Jack doesn't hurt when he pulls I still thought of getting him one just to correct the behavior period. I will say the trainer put one on my arm and pulled, it didn't stab them or anything.

 

 

[Frances Pendrous (Horan)]

Hi Jennifer. I had to giggle when you said that Myla remembers exactly where they saw the critter....no matter how many days past. We walk these dogs twice daily and therefore, see many, many four-legged "chasables" Therefore, Frankie girl rubbers necks constantly for the entire walk....You are right, classes will not give me the trigger but a personal trainer would so I guess it is finding one that will help out here and I wont have to mortgage my home to pay for it :)

[Adina P]

"I feel that the lab in her just completely takes over and then is no stopping her."

Remember even hunting labs can be trained and are trained to control their impulses and only run after things appropriately or on command.  So even sweet Frankie Girl can be trained to not lunge after things and to remain calm and walk politely beside you despite the critters she sees.  I would say YES, redo training class of some sort with a trainer who is 100% confident you can get the lunging in control.  But in the meantime you may have to walk Frankie Girl separately until she quits responding to critters...because it may be too difficult to train her effectively with Johnny attached. 

 

 

She does not respond to her name or being jerked on the leash and told "NO" or "LEAVE It" it is like she is possessed....Should I take her back to training classes

[Frances Pendrous (Horan)]

Morning Adina. Always so wise with advice....:) You, of course, are correct. Even hunting dogs, whose only purpose in life, is to hunt these critters can be trained to not go after them when the time is not right. Therefore, as with most things with these spoilt dogs of ours, it comes down to discipline and training. After reading so many wonderful replies to my problem, I am going to look for a reputable trainer to walk with her and see if we can break this habit. The sad thing is, that when she was a cute little puppy and this all started, my husband and I actually encouraged her to seek them out by saying "where's the bunnies Frankie" and actually made her search for them. Of course, we found it cute and amusing. We never realized that 1) the girl would hit a 100lb and 2) a fun game would turn into an obsession. Anyway, thanks for the advice and I will be joining the training group.

[Tina, Clover, Plus 5 More]

I agree with Jane.  Using a harness with the leash attached to the ring on the chest and not the back gives you better control, at least it has for me.  I've seen a lot of comments about using the gentle leader, halti and others brands to help with pulling.  Not sure if it would be beneficial in your situation or not. 

I know we think of labs and goldens as hunters, but the standard poodle was orginally bred and highly valued as a water retriever.  Hunting is a natural instinct for them and some have a higher prey drive than others.  Our lab Apollo is a different dog when hunting with DH it's like flipping a switch.  Frankie Girl just needs to be shown when it's appropriate to flip the switch.  I'm not talking about hunting, but other ways for her to burn that energy off.  Dogs with a higher drive need to be worked, it burns up the extra energy they have.  A lot of dogs end up being re-homed because of this, when all they need is to be worked 30-60 minutes 3-4 days a week.  I not saying additional training is not needed.  It's like having a kid with ADHD, once you find the right treatment plan it gives them the tools to focus.  Frankie Girl will be more successful with training if she can burn the extra energy off.

For Apollo it's off leash walking in a field with brush or trees along the fence line allowing him to put their nose to work.  There are other ways to burn energy and mentally challenge them and working with the right trainer will help.  Hunting groups are a good resource to find ways to work a dog.  Frankie Girl is a great dog, she just hasn't been taught how to deal with her urges.   

[Frances Pendrous (Horan)]

Thanks Tina. We do use harness' with both doodles as I find them far more easier to handle. You are right, Frankie Girl just needs some extra training regarding when it is okay to hunt and when it is not. Sadly, right now, for her entire walk she is in hunting mode which makes for an exhausting and far from pleasurable stroll. I am going to seek professional help with this problem before someone (like me) gets seriously injured. You are so correct though, she puts herself into the exhaustion mode, running from fence to fence in the garden attempting to catch a lizard and this goes on for hours.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I have no time so I will say two words, since I am an older, not so svelte as you lady  who likes her arms to be left in their sockets, prong collar.