I hate that I'm even asking this...

[Jen and Annie]

I never thought in a million years that I would consider using a prong collar, but Annie is so incredibly strong. I have tried 'stop-and-go' on our walks for her on-leash pulling, and it seems to be slowly working. If she pulls, we stop walking. She is pulling much less often, but it still happens, and we still stop when she does it. I have tried positive reinforcement when she is walking by my side. I feel like I have tried everything, and I need to get her leash walking and jumping greetings under control. I have always thought I would never use an aversive method with her, but I think I am at a loss, especially with her human greetings.
Over the past few weeks I have been researching prong collars, and I have always been against them - but mostly because they look so barbaric. From what I've read, the dog is actually the one in control of the correction for the most part, and that it is more of a 'slight pinch' than it is a stabbing into their neck. I am writing to poll the DK members on your experiences with prong collars.
I am fully committed to the time it takes for training, but no matter how much I run Annie, or try to drain her energy - she is always able to muster up enough energy to exhuberantly jump on people. She is very very stong by now, at over 70 lbs. She almost knocked over a small child at the dog park a few weeks ago, which is what prompted my research on new methods. It's like she sees the person who is LEAST capable of defending themselves against her jumping, and jumps on them. :-{
She just LOVES people. I can prevent her from jumping, just by keeping her on a short leash, but she flails and freaks out trying to get to the person to say hi, in her Annie way. She basically goes deaf and can't hear any of the "SIT! No, ANNIE! LEAVE IT!" when she wants to see someone. Once I'm able to calm her down (usually takes 2-3 minutes, and I have to physically hold my hand on her back to prevent her from continuing to flail around) she will sit and whimper for the person she wants to jump on, and I can hold her back to keep her from jumping on them, but sometimes will just give a HUGE tug and rip my arm almost out of socket to try and greet the person.
I have read that the prong collars really can be a useful tool, but I just feel so bad to put one on her...please tell me of your experiences or suggestions on the pulling on leash and jumping up on people. I know she is such a sweet girl, and I worry that using a prong collar will change her personality. She really is a doll, she just has a hard time hiding her excitement for people. Will a prong collar work to help me correct the pulling/jumping up, without changing her sweet personality ?

I really want what's best for her, but would also like to 'save' the poor people that she meets.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I agree with the Herm Sprenger recommendation. Also for light colored dogs stainless steel avoids discoloration of the fur.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I have been using prong collars on my two for years now. I love them and I don't really know if we need them. But with two dogs I feel much more secure in case something should cause them to bolt. I had mine specially made for easy opening and closing. My dogs would not be so excited about going for a walk if their prong collars bothered them. 

[Carla, Lucca and Izzy]

All this advice is great. I also agree, prong collars are actually a very humane way to train. I know they look bad, but they're not:) Another suggestion: Izzy is a puller and very strong also and walking two dogs who weigh more than me was hard. I tried all sorts of collars and harnesses. The prong was great until she got used to it then she would ignore the "tug". We went back to the easy walker which also worked BUT what works the BEST for Izzy is attaching her leash to the Easy Walker AND also attach it to her collar. A friend had suggested this as their trainer's recommendation. I have much better control over her and she responds quite quickly...well...except for when she sees the mailman whom she adores and there is nothing stopping her from getting as close as possible to see him to say "hi" and then get a yummy treat!!!

Good luck!!

[Adina P]

I use the chain slip (a.k.a. 'choke chain') for training.  I have and do use a prong as needed.  Both are very easy and safe to use when used properly.  But I have seen dogs pull with both.  So neither is something that you can just strap on and go and get a miraculously well behaved dog.  

For leash walking I swear by this: http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum2/topics/david-dikemans-command  --  done right, I will almost guarantee you that in two weeks Annie would be walking in a near heel (despite having 15 feet of loose leash) without you uttering a single command to her.  Between the two of us, Clark and I have trained 4 dogs to walk in heel on leash (around distractions) in less time than most people take with the average obedience classes.

[Adina P]

I was just reading through all the answers and saw that you were hoping you could train her on your own sans classes/trainer.  If so, I would like to double my recommendation for this video series.  If you google "David Dikeman" he sells the DVD's too, though they are not updates, just DVD versions of the video.  Also I'm always happy to walk/email you through all the steps and help you prepare properly.  We even have an old group I'd be happy to let you join if you decide to try it after watching the videos so you could peruse older discussions.  It is bootcamp-ish because it requires up to an hour of your time daily, 6 days a week.  Sometimes a little less, usually not more.  But oh so worth it!  Plus you are spending time with Annie so it's not like real 'work' because you're learning how to better work together!

[Jen and Annie]

Thanks Adina. I am fully committed to training her, and an hour a day is a breeze.  Our daily walks are about 45 minutes, so I would probably use most of that time for the training.  Other than that, I have no life, LOL.  If you could send me the link to the old group, i'd love to see the discussions. 

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Adina, I would be interested in the information, too. I must have the only dog (Vern) who still pulls like an ox on a prong collar.

[Adina P]

There is no "info" for me to give besides the recommendation for the video series. The group is for those who have watched the videos, want to do the program and want peer supportand to learn from others' mistakes and stuff like that there :)

[Jen and Annie]

OMG Laurie - don't say that. Today while Annie was trying to amputate my arm, I was dreading the thought that it might not work with her.  I mean, I know its coupled with training, but she is so strong she could probably pull a hayride with several children riding on it.  I just hope it will help me to give her the correction that she will understand and listen to.  

Does Vern just push through the pain, or is he unphased by it at all?  

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I really believe that the collar is just a tool...and they are only as effective as you are as a trainer.  I've used them all, choke chain, slip lead, prong collar, flat collar, Gentle Leader, and eventually an e-collar.  I was training Murphy who was extremely reactive initially to people and dogs and then to just dogs.  He is very strong, especially when he was in an escalated state of mind and it eventually took the e-collar for me to be able to even walk him.  When he was in that state, no other collar could give enough of a correction to snap him out of it.  Eventually it became clear to me that training needed to be more than just putting the right collar on him and "correcting" him out of the behavior.  I needed to figure out how to change his state of mind BEFORE he became "fear aggressive".  You have what I believe is a different situation in that Annie is just getting very excited when she sees people.  There are similarities though...you need to teach her to control her excitement...that pulling and jumping will not get her what she wants.  I think you can use a prong collar, or a choke chain collar, or a Gentle Leader (my current favorite) and take her to a place where you can somewhat control the distractions.  You don't want to overwhelm her right away...you need to be able to teach her at a pace where she can understand what you are asking her to do.  My older mini Doodle is very much like Annie, and for him the reward is always getting to "meet" the person or other dog.  I use a slip lead for him and my DH uses the Gentle Leader (he's more likely to pull when my DH has him) and he knows that we will only move forward if he is calm and walking right by my side.  If he sees something ahead that gets him excited and he begins to pull I quickly turn around and walk the other way for a few steps and then we try again.  I also give a verbal correction the second I see him break his concentration on me because I know that pulling will be next.   When we meet people I always put him in a sit/stay about 6 ft away from the person and watch is state of mind...I don't let the person approach until he's calm.  It takes consistency and lots of practice, but eventually they will understand and your walks will be so much more enjoyable.  Can I suggest that you copy this discussion into the training group?  If you do we will be able to keep this going and track your progress, possible giving you more hints.  I can try to get a video of my approach with Guinness later this week if you do open this in the training group.  Also, I understand your situation, but I really think a couple of sessions with a private trainer would be invaluable.

[Jay, Lola and Colonel Esau]

For sure - and in fact I would say this is true in life in general.  People buy into quick fixes because it's easier than changing their own behavior.  Whether you are teaching a dog or a human being, it should go without saying that the student needs to be motivated to learn from you before you try to teach.  While that motivation can be created in different ways, I personally believe there is no substitute for taking the time to do it in a positive manner and establishing the proper foundation of love, trust and respect.  In addition to the dog's general attitude towards you as a teacher, you need what I think of as having your energy "in sync" with the dog when you are actually doing the training.  I suppose if you want to be technical, that has to do with body language, voice tone, posture and other manifestations of your internal mental, psychological an emotional state.  If you don't have those basics, I expect you will always struggle, no matter what tool, technique or device you try.  If you do have those basics, however, your job will be made easier by having the right tool, technique or device for the job at hand.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Absolutely agree with all of this....and the "right tool" may differ depending on the dog and the person.