I hate that I'm even asking this...

[Jen and Annie]

I never thought in a million years that I would consider using a prong collar, but Annie is so incredibly strong. I have tried 'stop-and-go' on our walks for her on-leash pulling, and it seems to be slowly working. If she pulls, we stop walking. She is pulling much less often, but it still happens, and we still stop when she does it. I have tried positive reinforcement when she is walking by my side. I feel like I have tried everything, and I need to get her leash walking and jumping greetings under control. I have always thought I would never use an aversive method with her, but I think I am at a loss, especially with her human greetings.
Over the past few weeks I have been researching prong collars, and I have always been against them - but mostly because they look so barbaric. From what I've read, the dog is actually the one in control of the correction for the most part, and that it is more of a 'slight pinch' than it is a stabbing into their neck. I am writing to poll the DK members on your experiences with prong collars.
I am fully committed to the time it takes for training, but no matter how much I run Annie, or try to drain her energy - she is always able to muster up enough energy to exhuberantly jump on people. She is very very stong by now, at over 70 lbs. She almost knocked over a small child at the dog park a few weeks ago, which is what prompted my research on new methods. It's like she sees the person who is LEAST capable of defending themselves against her jumping, and jumps on them. :-{
She just LOVES people. I can prevent her from jumping, just by keeping her on a short leash, but she flails and freaks out trying to get to the person to say hi, in her Annie way. She basically goes deaf and can't hear any of the "SIT! No, ANNIE! LEAVE IT!" when she wants to see someone. Once I'm able to calm her down (usually takes 2-3 minutes, and I have to physically hold my hand on her back to prevent her from continuing to flail around) she will sit and whimper for the person she wants to jump on, and I can hold her back to keep her from jumping on them, but sometimes will just give a HUGE tug and rip my arm almost out of socket to try and greet the person.
I have read that the prong collars really can be a useful tool, but I just feel so bad to put one on her...please tell me of your experiences or suggestions on the pulling on leash and jumping up on people. I know she is such a sweet girl, and I worry that using a prong collar will change her personality. She really is a doll, she just has a hard time hiding her excitement for people. Will a prong collar work to help me correct the pulling/jumping up, without changing her sweet personality ?

I really want what's best for her, but would also like to 'save' the poor people that she meets.

[F, Calla & Luca]

Yes, just my thinking. I like the security.

[a.k.a. Rodney]

Would have prevented my daughter from having rotator cuff surgery!!

[Willow and J]

Lots of information here already, so just briefly: we used prong collar and easy walker for several months each between age 1-2.5, and we have been walking her on regular collar (not a choker) for several months now without much problem. She still pulls and likes to greet people, but it's all controllable now. So, yes, you can use those tools for some time just for training. Easy walker was much more effective than prong collar for us, but we had to switch out from it because she started getting itchy under her arms with atopic dermatitis (not from the Easy Walker, but it rubbed under arms.)

[Traz, Karen & Dale]

I do not have any experience with the prong collar, but I do the gentle leader.  Traz will be 11 months old in April 8th.  We have had him since he was 4 months old.  We have done the puppy training classes; beginning, intermediate and advanced.  He also passed the Canine Good Citizen test and received his certificate.  We had to use the flat collar through all his training.  Traz has good days and not-so-good days in the "pulling" area.  He weighs 55+ pounds, at the present moment, and could be as big at 70 pounds like his Dad.  We started using the gentle leader about 2 months ago when Traz wrenched my husband's back from pulling to go mark and sniff the bushes.  My arms/elbows/shoulders were getting sore from the pulling too. (Yes, I know, it's amazing that he was able to get his CGC certificate, but he did.  I guess because it was a more controlled environment)  I remove the gentle leader and put him on his flat collar when he isn't in the pulling mood.  If he's wanting to pull, he goes back on the gentle leader and it saves our bodies.  So, no matter what method you use to correct Annie's situation, I wish you the best.  We all do what we need to do in order to manage our precious pups.  Good luck on your decision :-)     

[Jarka, Monty & Auggie]

I feel your pain. Monty was my first dog and I had no clue about training methods. We got signed up for a training with a "Nazi" guy who gave us the prong collar during our first session. After several sessions with the trainer and seeing how Monty hated it, we dropped off, but I kept using the prong collar until he was almost a year old. It definitely helped on the walks. Then we started a positive training with clicker and treats, and we switched the prong collar for an Easy Walk harness. That's what I use now with both dogs. Now, my second doodle Auggie is a different story. We enrolled into a positive training with him and he does really well, except for jumping on people and also pulling on leash when I walk them both.  Just last week I said "enough" to the crazy walk of two doodles and put prong collars on both of them. Immediate change! Yes, the dog is in charge. I would say try it a see for yourself if it's something that would help Annie. You might not use it forever with her, just until she matures and learns to walk on leash and meet people politely.

Also, I used to have the metal prong collars and last week ordered these plastic ones. They don't seem so sharp, but still do the trick. It's a bit more hassle to put them on, but I think I can live with it if it helps me walk two dogs nicely.

http://www.amazon.com/StarMark-Training-Collar-Large-Blue/dp/B000A6...

[Julie, Boomer, Milo & Casey]

Jarka - this is the collar Boomer's trainer recommended and sold. He was trained with this collar. We like it here!

[Adina P]

I'm going to embed some videos of me training Boca below to demonstrate what it looks like.  These are not how to videos as much as 'results along the way' videos.

This was Boca just out of her crate, greeting a friend of ours.  No leash, no commands, just her doing her thing.  She's not even as bad as she usually is in this video from Dec 5, 2010:

She wasn't as bad as she usually was, partly because I'd controlled her on leash greetings SO MUCH

Next is Boca 3 weeks later doing an on leash meet and greet with the grandparents. She'd been crated prior to seeing them for the first time in a while.  You can tell she's still ready to jump out of her pants, but on leash, while working she IS capable of controlling herself. 


Here is us heeling.  This first video is the first day she learned to sit all on her own without a command (as heel is supposed to work)

--not much distraction, but she grew to do this well around distractions.

We also got to the point of starting off leash heeling out in the park, but then I got too pregnant and then I had a baby and a toddler and I just never got back into finishing her training.

Here she is learning stand stay: http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/trainingmindsets/forum/topics/sta...

This is Boca learning the recall:


Some faster paced heeling:

Later in her recall training:

The heeling and sits (and downs) and stays we progressed quite well with.  To the point where we were able to do these in a dog park on leash with other stranger dogs coming up to her.  The first time we went into a dog park, she was rough on all these things she already knew well, but considering the circumstances she did amazingly well and got better as we worked. 

[Julie, Boomer, Milo & Casey]

Sold me on it! Just ordered the DVD. (Through the DK amazon link too!). :-)

Where did you get your leather leash? My local stores seem pricey so I bought one online last week and its REALLY stiff. I don't like it at all!

[Adina P]

I looked over my post and I wanted to be sure I didn't mislead anyone.  The first video is NOT before any training was ever done.  She had already started and was several weeks into it.  So the second video was not a mere 3 weeks into her training, just 3 weeks after that first one.  And although we did fairly well, it takes a lot of commitment and work and being willing to follow something precisely.  It is strict.  It isn't 'easier' than other ways to train, it just works better & faster (IMO) if you follow it strictly. 

Clark had a leather leash (and we still have it) that is 15-16 years old and it is still in excellent condition.  I don't remember where mine came from.  I hear good things about this place: http://www.jjdog.com/ 

I think they all start off kinda stiff, though...manipulate it lots to soften it up a bit.  Kind of like a leather catcher's glove, I assume (I know very little about baseball).

[BG and Gavin]

I used to work my ball gloves in with shaving cream (the kind with lanolin).  I bet you could do the same with a leather lead.

[Jen and Annie]

I have been in the car all day and keeping up with responses through my email on the phone.  Adina - in the first video - Annie acts this way as well, times about 10 or 15.  I would be THRILLED if Annie greeted people the way that Boca greeted in that first video.  I am going to look at the DVDs for the trainer you recommended.  The other guys training I was looking into was named Don Sullivan I think. His program is called "the perfect dog" or something like that - Either way, I'm going to have to make a decision on a training program soon.  I was reminded of Annies strength on our trip today, when she was stuck in a car for 12 hours. 

[Lynda Kamrath]

I've used pronged collars and they are good for what they are supposed to be good for.  My dogs do not pull when they have a pronged collar on.  Actually, they walk fine if I have only one of them, but when I have both of them, for some reason they are pulling and competing.  So, sometimes we use a pronged collar, sometimes a regular collar and leash, sometimes a harness.  But I really prefer to have them off leash.  Most of the time I let them walk on their own, but when I see someone with a dog who looks worried, or someone who is not a dog person, I have them sit and I put on their leashes.  It makes other people more comfortable.  I also take the dogs on a BTL (bike tow leash) with a harness and that is great.  But for me, modifying the restraint to the situation seems to work best.  Keep alternatives handy and remember to always remove the pronged collar when they get in the car.