Interesting Facts I learnt at the Vet yesterday

[Chelsea and Bailey]

So I could post this in the food group but thought it might reach more people if used in the general section.  I was at the vet yesterday with Bailey (for her urinary problems, AGAIN) and the vet was kind of stumped and suggested to try to change her food.  She has what are called struvite crystals in her urine, which if left untreated can cause infection, or in her case infection could have caused the crystals. Anyways thats a whole other topic. So when she said to change food (Bailey is on TOTW) I told her that I had done lots of research on what is good, staying away from corn, soy, grain free, etc.  And here is what the vet told me:

-grain free is something that has no backup scientific research behind it and does not mean that it is better

-corn is a HUGE misconception, she said to make sure it says whole corn, same with rice, make sure it says whole wheat rice.

-Byproducts- says that in fact some byproducts can actually be good

-protein- there are no regulations on how to handle the protein.  She says often they put small amounts of protein in the food and inject it with water to make it bulk up and heavier, which they are absolutely allowed to do

-foods stated homeopathic- completely unregulated and could have anything in them, so dont buy into it!

-She also stated that just because it says chicken on what we think is a good quality bag of food actually may still be the intestines and organs.

-The #1 thing she just wanted me to know was that all pet foods are unregulated and what might be in one bag of food with the same company may not be whats in another, which is why some people are baffled when they stay on the same food but all of a sudden their pet has allergies with a new bag of food.

 

Now some of you may think that she was just trying to sell her food at the vet, but she was completely non-judgemental and just wanted to let me know what was out there.  She stated she worked at a pet store before becoming a vet and knew what they told the employee's. She gave me two brands that she has followed and knows are regulated with the exact same ingredients in each bag and also followed the health results in pets, and thought I should try those, and yes one was at her store, but one was also just a normal pet store brand.  I thought I would just share this with you all and see if anyone has any input.  Being trained in medicine and research myself I know not to just read an article off the internet and believe it unless it has been peer reviewed and research tested, but I have to say I jumped right on the band wagon with all this grain free marketing going around without finding any REAL research on it.  So im off to try and search and see if I can find anything... I'll post it here if I do find!

[Adina P]

This will be quite the controversial discussion! 

 

I actually have not been convinced myself that corn is inherently harmful (or grains for that matter).  The only thing with corn is it seems a lot of the big box companies that have had major safety issues tend to use corn. And the quality of their food from a safety standpoint and an ingredient procurement standpoint is questionable.  It is a cheap ingredient so it makes it appear that it's used merely because of its price and not because it is particularly beneficial or needed.  You just wouldn't see dogs in the wild harvesting corn...but then they'd probably not be cooking potatoes or sweet potatoes either or baking themselves dog treats, shelling peanuts, or making frozen yogurt Kongs.

I just wanted to clarify one detail. It would need to say 'whole grain rice' -- (not whole wheat rice since wheat and rice are separate grains).  Also I'm not familiar with any 'homeopathic' foods or foods that market themselves as 'homeopathic' -- did he mean 'holistic' or 'organic' ?

[Adina P]

I agree with you though that before I would consider an ingredient 'harmful' to most dogs there would need to be good research.  Karen (Karen & Jack) has some research links to some ingredients that are often considered harmful--since these tend to be included in a lot of the big store brands then those brands are often considered inferior.

[Chelsea and Bailey]

Thankyou Adina for clarifying! I wrote this pretty quick as I'm trying to drink my morning coffee and keep bailey from destroying things haha.  Whole wheat rice is right and as for homeopathic versus holistic... i have to say im not as familiar and often use their names interchangeable when talking about one as foods and vitamins and one as more of a doctor doing treatments. I believe holistic would be the one that would fit this discussion, and the vet was referring more too different powders and pills you can get to supposedly "cure" certain ailments. She just said always stick with a reputable studied brand if you are going to go on that path.

[Adina P]

Homeopathy: A system of therapy based on the concept that disease can be treated with drugs (in minute doses) thought capable of producing the same symptoms in healthy people as the disease itself.  -- I don't believe in homeopathy, but this would not make sense connected to a dog food.

 

Holistic: Holistic medicine is a term used to describe therapies that attempt to treat the patient as a whole person. That is, instead of treating an illness, as in orthodox allopathy, holistic medicine looks at an individual's overall physical, mental, spiritual, and emotional wellbeing before recommending treatment -- this really doesn't specify any specific treatment as much as a philosophy of treatment.  There's really nothing to research on this...it just means you consider all aspects of the dog which is good.  In the case of dog food, I think the term is used on some dog foods, but it doesn't mean anything specific.

[Chelsea and Bailey]

This is in Canada so im not sure if they will have this everywhere, but the one they sell at the Vet is Hills Healthy Advantage, for large breed puppy. It has clinically proven results. And the other which I was quite baffled by was Science Diet puppy, they sell that at all major pet stores, maybe even Walmart. I chose the one at the vet, but that was just preference.

 

Another thing I forgot to add in... She also told me that if you do not provide your puppy with the right amount of calories for their age, they can grow to fast and have major bone and development issues in the future. She said be sure to check the calories on each bag because some could have as little as 200 per cup and others 1000 per cup.

[Adina P]

Both Hills and Science Diet are the same company.  Most vets 'sell' science diet even though you can buy it at regular stores. So although it may seem like he recommended two different brands, they are made by the same company that gives most vets their nutrition info.  That alone doesn't prove goodness or badness, but it is a very controversial topic. 

[Chelsea and Bailey]

Hmm that is interesting, maybe I missed that memo when she was talking to me... obviously dont know as much as I thought.

[Adina P]

Really wish that Science Diet had some competition because it is bizarre to me that Hills has the monopoly on vet recommendations.  C'mon Fromm, Canidae, Orijen, etc...start some Vet Marketing and 'specialized formulas'!

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

When my vet told me to put T. on Hills for kidney issues, I told her no and brought him back 6 months later on Solid Gold (Karen helped me analyze the nutrition for both).  She was shocked at the improvement!  And I did not even follow her recommendation. She told me to "keep on doing what you are doing".  A little victory for us foodies ;)

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

Wow.  I would not follow her advice!  We have so many discussions on this in the Food Group. Come join us!  The Science Diet and Hills both are full of fillers and preservatives that are not good for our dogs - it is a known fact these are some of the worst foods on the market! 

 

If you want to get away from grains, we have a loooong list of healthy grain foods that we feel comfortable about:  from the ingredients, to the manufacturer, to the inspection quality, etc....

 

Please check it out!  I used to feed Nutro a few years back, finally swiched my chihuahua to Solid Gold and he is so much healthier.  Feed Fromm to my doodle.  And our recommended foods are not necessarily more expensive per serving, either!

 

Come join us in the Food Group! 

 

http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/recomme...

 

http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/why-you...

[Lois Judith Steelman]

The vets I've had NEVER try to sell me their food unless it was a very specific thing such as kidney disease but they also said "it may help some."  On the other hand since I've lived 65 yrs, I've had many friends who make their own dog food and one couple in particular had golden retrievers (one was 13) and they never scratched!  Their dogs never experienced the allergies I've seen in most retrievers.  If your vet is pushing one brand, I would be suspicious of her.  Maybe she's a great vet though.    My personal experience from feeding a Samoyed very very inexpensive food and her having projectile vomiting which stopped immediately after we got her switched to a "decent" quality food made me very aware that food makes a difference.  It's a complicated issue.  I prefer tolisten to people who have the same breed and make my own decision.  Thanks for bringing this up.  I'm still trying to find the best food for Midnight!

[Kyoko]

At one point, my vet suggested I give my dogs Hills Science Diet Prescription food. That " Prescription" made it sounds really official, but I told him I have to think about it. After I looked into the ingredients, I had to tell him "No Thanks!! " I rather feed them "Good" chicken intestines than Chicken-by-products!!  I rather eat "Cheese" than "Cheese food", you know?