Is alternative or 'new age' medicine Hokum?

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

Ok, long story but I'm going to try to make it short. Basically there's this man who brings his dog to the dog park who has recently been trying to give me (unsolicited) advice about Winston's allergies. I usually try to change the subject because he's one of these new age spiritual types, the kind I used to worship back when I was younger but have since become far more skeptical of. Talk of balancing energy fields through positive vibrations and what not usually makes me uncomfortable.

 

He says he's cured allergies and 'hot spots' and other such conditions in other dogs using his quantum rejuvination techniques. He did cure his own dog's hot spot as I saw the transition. He said he cured four different cancers in himself, and that this is the same science that Lance Armstrong used to cure his cancer (I googled around for Lance A. and alternative or new age medicine and didn't find much). From what I hear from the rumour mill this guy has a background in science and medicine and is also filthy rich. He has a website that I checked out and it seems rather bizarre, but if you're curious send me a message I'll give the address to you.

 

Anyway, after asking me a few times for a hair sample from Winston so that he can analyse it using his special technology or something, I finally gave in to morbid curiosity and said ok. I figure, what do I have to lose at this point since nothing else seems to work.

 

So he called me with the results of his analysis last night, and below are the notes I took on my computer as we were talking (keeping in mind that I was writing the notes down I was distracted by a pulsating pain in my head cause by a vicious cupboard door attack) - colour comment is mine.

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Worms – get deworming powder at the pet store - this will help with itchy butt. (hhhmmmmm... Winston had a negative fecal done very recently)

Grains &  Gluten intolerance (good thing Winston is now on grain free food)

Sprain or muscle spasms (his back leg has seemed quite stiff...)

Depression, rejection and some anxiety (no kidding)

Meridian system is over inflated (WTD???)

Spinal issues-compressed nerves (not sure about this but possible)

Dermatitis from allergies (I already knew this...)

Weak thyroid – medicine creating a dependency.  inconsistently give it to him. Break the cycle by stopping, then give it to him inconsistently so his body doesn’t get dependant on it. (I have a hard time understanding how stopping his thryroid pills will help him... but it is interesting that he noted the condition and he didn't know he was already diagnosed with it)

 

Allergies:(some of these foods are in his current kibble (orijen adult) or were in his past kibble (nutro lamb and rice and I have been giving him cookies that have some the ingrediants, like wheat, in them)

 

Acute:                                  

Bakers Yeast

Vegetables - only give him steamed as it is easier on his system (no wonder he doesn't eat his broccoli)

Chicken (this is the base protein of his kibble)

Wasps and mosquitoes

Tomatoes

Wheat

Grass

Chicken

Nuts

Broccoli

rapeseed (canola oil)

lamb

 

Chronic:

Shellfish

Whey (in a lot of dog food)

Bakers yeast

Mold

Animal hair such as cats - (Oh no! Penelope!!)

MSG (who isn't allergice to MSG and why would anyone give this to their dog anyway?)

Sweet Potatoes (interesting because he rejects these)

Aduki beans (funny, I had these for dinner the other night and had never heard of them before then)

Fish – particularly trout and cod (he did not do well on six fish orijen)

Coconut

Salmon

Egg whites (he rejects boiled eggs)

Peas that are raw

 

Iodine deficiency - feed him kelp or seaweed as it will help build the thyroid. (I should look into this, if this is true it couldn't hurt right?)

For his itchy Paws, use betadine (a diluted iodine). 2 minutes per paw. Half a capful of betadine in water. Dogs sweat through paws so betadine will absorb in his system – doing this on a daily basis will help. (I asked pharmacist about this and she thought it was nuts but admitted there could be something she doesn't know about it as she's not a dog expert)

 

Rhustox. 2 or 3 pellets – don’t touch, crush with spoon. Have Winston lick them. Sugar tablet. Stops itching. (this is some sort of a homeopathic substance)

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Ok, recognizing this guy might be completely out to lunch, I'm pretty skeptical. However, I'm wondering how much harm there is in testing some of his theories out given that nothing else I've tried works, including several different types of antihistimines, including the steroids and seasonal allergies are no longer the problem now that the weather is cold. He still knaws on his paws, and his leg-pits, as well as scratches his chin obssessively (I actually found scabs from where he must have broke the skin). I would never mess with his thyroid meds but is there any harm in trying out the homeopathic stuff and trying the de-worming powder and maybe making some dietary changes and trying out some sort of beef based diet?

 

On the other hand, I could make the two hour drive to Montreal and fork out the $300 to get a full blood work up for allergies as my vet had suggested as an option, which would be followed by $100 shots every 10 days which have only proved successful in about a quarter to half of her clients who have done this. I am not rich so I'm not sure this is an option right now...

 

So basically, Complete and total HOKUM, or is it worth a shot? I'm leaning towards Hokum, I'd bet my doodles that Karen and F will think so, but I thought this would make for an interesting discussion...

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

aaaaha, so much for keeping it short :(

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I am going to try very hard to keep my response short and not get emotional, because this is a very emotional hot button issue for me.

Allergies cannot be "cured". Period, book it, take it to the bank. They can only be managed.

Everything this man told you is hokum. And that's a much more polite word than I would really like to use.

I will bet anything that if you followed his advice, it would end up costing you much more than any veterinary treatment out there, and Winston would not be much better.

The harm is that Winston will continue to suffer and the longer you wait to try an immunotherapy treatment program like the one JD is on, the lower the chances that it will be successful. The treatment works best the earlier it is started.

The option that your vet suggested is not the best or only option. Blood tests are notoriously unreliable in diagnosing allergies, even more so in dogs than in humans, because the markers are different. The most rleiable testing method is the skin testing under anesthetic, and it is expensive. But after the initial period of working up to a maintenance dose of antigens, the antigens will cost you less than $50 a month, the shots will only need to be administered every 2-3 weeks, and the success rate in dogs is roughly 75%, not 25%. Perhaps this vet has such a low success rate because she is using an unreliable testing method and the antigens are not the right ones.  

You need a board certified veterinary allergy specialist.

Winston's allergies may not be seasonal, but they can still be inhalant or environmental allergies as opposed to food allergies. Dust mites, storage mites, indoor and outdoor molds, cat hair and dander, and other allergens are all things that can cause severe allergic symptoms. Food is the culprit in only 10% of cases.

In many allergic dogs, the symptoms start out being seasonal but eventually become year-round. This may have been the case with Winston. Even though the ragweed is gone, JD is not 100% back to normal yet; his system is still reacting. This stuff gets worse as the dog gets older, which is why I would urge you to act now.

I promise you that doing the skin testing will help immediately, if only because all of the guessing will be over, and you will be able to formulate a tangible plan. Just knowing for sure gives you so much relief , it's hard to explain it.

You know I am here for you and will help you in any way I can.

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

I knew you'd jump right in. The vet did say the skin testing is an option, but there is nothing close to home. Now that I think about it though, that might be the one I have to go to Montreal for. I'll have to double check. Keep in mind Karen that mold and cat hair were on his list too, and 10% is still 10%. I've experienced those odds before ...

 

I am totally open to doing the skin testing. and actually, I'd find it very interesting to compare the results. It's just that I might need to wait a couple months as I really don't have the money for it right now. Even if I get the test, the shots will be pricey.

 

That's interesting about the ragweed effect lingering. I had figured it should be ruled out by now given it's been at least 6 weeks. Also, the claritin, hydroxazine, steroids, only provided some releif so I feel like I need to try something else at this point.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Okay, let's say he does have food allergies. He can't have an allergy to something he's never eaten before, and typically, food allergies develop after a dog has been eating that food on a regular basis over a period of time. When has he eaten tomatoes or raw peas? Or coconut? Or aduki beans? Or shellfish? This stuff alone shows you that this guy is full of...hokum.

But okay, let's say he's allergic to some of the other foods that might actually be possible, like chicken and lamb. The only way to deal with that is to elminate them from his diet. So let's now figure out what we can feed him that doesn't contain any chicken, lamb, fish, vegetables, eggs or sweet potatoes. It's almost impossible for him to be allergic to all of those things, but if you want to try this, what is he going to eat? And how happy is going to be?

I am also wondering how much other info you gave this guy, like the fact that you have a cat, or the foods that Winston has been eating, or whatever else. Clearly you told him that Winnie is on thyroid meds. This is how fortune tellers work; they use the information you give them and make some guesses based on that.

So maybe this guy guessed right on the mold or cats, or maybe he just named two very common allergens, especially if he knew you had a cat. But the only way to treat those allergies regardless is to desensitize the dog with immunotherapy shots. You cannot get rid of the allergies. You just can't.

JD is allergic to 15 things, none of them food. (Well, he might be allergic to some food, but it doesn't seem to make any difference.) Some, like dust mites, are around all year. Others are only around part of the year, like some of the grasses and weeds. But there is always something that he's breathing in that he's allergic to. He handles it for 10 months of the year, but when the ragweed hits, his sytem just can't handle all of it. Some years are worse than others. If you look at the discussions in the Atopy Group, you'll see that most of the dogs there have multiple environmental allergens. It's never just one thing, like ragweed.

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

that is a great point about the coconut and aduki beans type stuff. I should have known that. I was thinking that the only way to eliminate all those foods is a raw diet. But you are right about alternative treatments costing more in the long run. I'm sure a personalized raw diet plan will be much more expensive in the long run...

 

I don't remember telling him a bout the thyroid, but it is possible that I or someone else did. I'm always rattling on about Winston in the park, so who knows. And yes, he knew about the cat. I had been saying I really hope he's not allergic to the cat, but I am beginning to suspect it's true. his breathing is really heavy and laboured when he gets up on the bed, where Penelope spends most of her days napping.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The amino acids in raw meat aren't any different than the amino acids in the same meat when it's cooked. You could also consider a homecooked diet. But the big question is, what protein source are you going to use?

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

beef and potatoes? I don't know. I guess my point was that it is easier to control what foods you give your dog instead of pre-prepared dog food that always has a mix of stuff...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You could try it. The company that formulates the diets might have alternate protein sources like venison, rabbit, bison, etc. Or you might be able to made your own food with those ingredients.

(BTW, Orijen doesn't contain yeasts or whey, so we don't have to worry about those)

There may also be some limited ingredient dog food formulas that don't contain chicken, fish, eggs or lamb, but they're probably going to contain either some kind of grain, or sweet potatoes. Still, when you do an elimination diet, it's best to eliminate one thing at a time. Otherwise, if the diet helps, you still don't know which foods the dog is allergic to.

It also takes 8-12 weeks of an elimination diet to see a result, if you're going to see one at all, which is another reason this is a frustrating path to travel.

[Sue, Murphy and Bella ()*o*()]

I'd probably give it a try as it can't hurt and who knows, it might help. How long does he suggest you try his methods before you would see results? The betadine will certainly be messy and it stains everything so be really careful with it. Maybe diluted won't stain his paws too bad, but spilling it full strength will stain things. I found it interesting too that 2 food items he rejects are on the list.

Good luck and let us know what you decide and the results.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Much as I would like to believe that there really are such places as Hogwart's and Oz, and that magic is real, I know it isn't. And unfortunately, magic is the only way anyone would be able to divine all of these allergens, parasites, deficiencies, and medical conditions from a piece of dead dog hair.

Some of these treatments, such as the iodine and the homeopathic pellets, could be very harmful. And I know you can't possibly be seriously considering fooling around with his thyroid med dosage.  Please promise me that you won't give his thyroid meds "inconsistently". That really could hurt him.  

He hasn't been on them very long, and some of the hair loss and  itchiness can be due to the thyroid problem, too. I had JD's thyroid tested prior to the allergy testing, for that reason.

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

I swear on my doods and kitty that I would not ever mess with his thyroid meds, or any other prescribed medication. That particular piece of advice is the biggest load of hokum of it all!

 

I don't even know what the rustox is and haven't done any research on betadine either so wouldn't try anything like that until I can get to the bottom of it, which is likely going to tell me not to do it anyway (I've always thought homeopathy was a load of hokum). I do find the advice weird which is why I asked the pharmacist when I was passing by today.

 

I just feel so desperate to help him and figured the food stuff couldn't hurt too much while I figure out how to get the skin testing done.

[Rory]

This guy sounds like a loon! But I'm going to add my own loony-ish suggestion - have you tried switching to a raw diet? I just switched a couple of months ago, and I am in no way a hard-core convert, but if the allergies/sensitivities are dietary, this type of diet does offer the option of trying unusual, single-protein sources without preservatives or other chemicals. And there are lots of good Canadian companies that make pre-ground if you don't want to feed whole, bone-in meat (I like Carnivora, personally). There are tons of anecdotes floating around online about the benefit of raw and allergies - I'm personally a skeptic about all these magical stories about feeding raw, but I do have a vet who has been feeding raw for about 2 decades, well before it became popular, and she is definitely a believer - just sayin'....might be worth a try....