Kidney problems?

[Julie B.]

My 15 week old pup has had a bad week and I thought I'd post her problems to see if anyone else has experienced this. I already searched the forum and didn't see anything real relevant. Anyway it started 2 days ago. She began vomiting in the morning, then again after her lunch. It was all food, no foreign objects. She vomited 3 more times after 3:30 so I took her to the vet. Her phosphorus levels were high and out of range so they suspected poisoning... I have checked and rechecked my yard and there is no indication of anything she could have gotten into... (I would never leave anything potentially bad out in the yard or in the house, plus I supervise her constantly.) Anyway, they gave her subtaneous fluids and a binder for the phosphorus and told me to come back in the morning for another blood test. That blood test came back with the same elevated levels plus additional elevation of Calcium so they kept her there all day for IV fluid therapy. She was home last night, ate well (hamburger and rice), drank well and had great energy (keeping a pup in a crate all day will do that!). I am taking her back in today for another subtaneous fluid injection because I do not want to leave her there again all day. Then later on today they want to recheck her blood. The vet does not think its kidney or liver disease because those indicators are not elevated in her blood work but I am having my doubts. The main reason being she has been by far the hardest pup to housebreak. She doesn't seem to have the ability to hold it (except when in her crate) and her urine is very clear and oderless. These can be signs of early kidney disease. Has anyone out there had this situation? I have also done quite a bit of internet searching and another possibility that I am pursueing is Rimadyl toxicity. She was injected with 50 mg of Rimadyl and given 5 days worth of pills 2 weeks ago. There is some controversy regarding Rimadyl toxicity in a very small percentage of dogs but it is the only foreign chemical that has entered her body since I brought her home... Quite an emotional week for me not to mention expensive so I just thought I'd ask all of you. Any advice or experiences would be greatly appreciated.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Julie, I'm sorry to hear that you and your pup are going through this. You might check the Health and Medical Group...discussions that are posted in groups won't show up in a main forum search.
Is it possible that your pup could have licked antifreeze in the garage or on the driveway or street? Even a few drops can be very toxic to dogs, especially one so small, and you wouldn't know if someone else's vehicle had leaked a few drops on your driveway or while parked on the street.
It's true that Rimadyl can cause organ damage, but it takes a fairly steady amount taken over a period of time for that to happen. It wouldn't happen from just one treatment and the symptoms wouldn't show up this fast.
Please keep us posted. I hope your pup will be fine very soon!

[Julie B.]

Thanks Karen I will check the other group. As for Rimadyl...adverse reactions can show up in as little as 2 weeks and they can involve reduced kidney and/or liver function. I have submitted a report to Phizer just in case and I have switched vets... I am ticked that the other vet would have given Rimadyl to Sydney now that I have done some internet research primarily because she was already being treated for Giardia which causes internal bleeding and if the injection truly was 50mg he doubled the dosage for her 14 lb weight. He also did not give me the Rimadyl precautions literature nor did he even discuss the risks involved. I plan to call that clinic today to confirm the 50mg injection dosage. I like others on this website have had bad experiences with vets so I really don't completely trust them. The one I have now has been good so far but she hasn't been able to offer any suggestions as to what is going on with Sydney. She didn't even suggest a urinalysis.... I did. Now I have the challenge of collecting one! Anyway I will let you and the members know if anything comes of this. I also found in my research that standard poodles are genetically susceptible to JRD (Juvenile Renal Disease) so I am in contact with my breeder to see if she can shed any light on this. The primary reason I am continuing to pursue the kidney issue is because she has been so hard to potty train. She seems to have an unlimited supply of urine and it is oderless and colorless which has not been my experience in the past. I keep mentioning this to my vet but she still doesn't think it is indicative of something wrong with her kidneys. We'll just have to see I guess. I take her back tonight for another blood panel and I just brought her back from the vet where she got another subcutaneous fluid injection. Boy do I wish I had followed my initial intuition to get health insurance...

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

How much is she drinking? What was the Rimadyl prescribed for?

[Linda, Webber and Seda]

I googled hyperphosphatemia in dogs and found this information. https://www.vetconnect.com.au/5min/data/02600261.htm
It has a list of possible reasons a dogs phosphorus level could be elevated. I am wondering what was in the IV solutions and would any ingredients change the subsequent lab results. What would the "binder" do. Did she get anything that would artificially elevate the cacium? This article interestingly says that growing puppies can have elevated phosphorus levels that exceed an adult...making me wonder if this was just a "normal" finding that they are treating.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_causes_hyperphosphatemia_in_dogs This article mentions elevated phosphorus + elevated calcium in a condition called hypervitaminosis D. Did the put eat some vitamins?? I hope that she gets better. Please keep us posted.

[Linda, Webber and Seda]

that would be Did the pup eat vitamins. My other thought is: have you considered Addison's disease? Inability to concentrate urine may be a clue here in the differential diagnosis.

[Julie B.]

You guys are the best! Linda your links were VERY informative. I have been googling stuff for the past 2 days and I didn't find anything like yours.I am going to print it out for my vet?? Why don't the vets come up with this stuff? Why did't she know that phosphorus levels can be much higher in young dogs? Might have saved me a lot of time and money if that was all it was. I got Sydney's blood work done again tonight and it is still the same. I did a lot of research and basically told the vet that I think the phosphorus has come from Sydney eating the dirt underneath my new sod in the backyard. I called my landscaper and last spring when he put in the lawn he used his "high octane" fertilizer and he told me the ratio it is 8 Nitrogen, 24 Phosphorus and 12 Potash. Further research into fertilizers told me that this was a very high concentration of Phosphorus and that it is not very water soluble. In fact it bonds better with the dirt that it does with water. I am having soil samples taken but it will take 2 weeks at least to get the results. Not sure why Sydney is licking at the dirt but now I have to walk her out on a leash to go to the bathroom and then correct her every time she tries to eat the dirt. Bottom line is, even though the blood tests did not show any improvement my vet just wants me to come back in 7 days to do another one. I am also going to get a urine specimen in for testing. (I had to tell her that I thought that would be a good idea!). I really don't have much confidence in vets in general because I have gone through something similar in the past and they just don't seem to research for solutions. They take quite a bit of my money for testing and then they don't spend much time trying to figure out what the results are telling them. The reason the calcium is now elevated is due to the phosphorus/calcium ratio that her body is trying to adjust. When phosphorus goes up the calcium will go up also. I will ask her what was in the IV. I honestly don't know. She doesn't want me supplement yet. I know Sydney is slightly anemic and that can cause her to want to eat dirt so I wanted to supplement with some iron to help the anemia. Vet didn't want to do this yet so the blood tests remain apples to apples. Sorry to be so long winded but I wanted to explain it all so you guys can noodle on it some more. Ohh, the Rimadyl was prescribed for a back leg injury she got while playing with my other doodle. She was quite lame on this leg for a day so I took her in. As far as her drinking goes, she drinks consistently but I wouldn't say it was excessive. She does have a great deal of urine output though and it is colorless and oderless. Hopefully a urinalysis will tell me something. Thanks again for your help and thoughts. Sydney has become the million dollar dog and she's only 4 months old...

[F, Calla & Luca]

Not being a vet I can only answer from a human perspective. It would be hard to imagine that norms are not age adjusted on the lab tests. The phosphorus in young dogs is probably related to bone growth and I'm sure the vet is aware of this. I would guess that the phosphorous was higher than it should have been for a pup her age. If she truly had a renal or kidney problem that is causing difficulty with urination other tests would show this and she would not be able to hold urine in her crate but not elsewhere. I'm not sure what you think taking a soil sample will tell you since you already know about the fertilizer unless you are looking for a toxin. Although you say she produces excessive amounts of urine and only drinks normal amounts, this would be impossible on a prolonged basis. I am sorry you have so little confidence in vets but it sounds like your vet is trying to figure this out. I think you have a lot of non veterinarians, you and me included, who do not have all the information, namely lab results, or training, confusing the issue here. Find a vet you trust and allow the vet to do what's indicated.

[Julie B.]

I guess I want to respond to your accusatory reply... Yes, norms are adjusted for age and she was still way high on 5 of the blood tests, 1 being phosphorus. Not sure why she can hold her urine in her crate but I do know her potty habits are way different than any of the 6 puppies I have raised in my lifetime. I would swear she has a UTI or something but she never runs a fever. As far as taking the soil sample, this is just a theory of mine (because the vets don't seem to be coming up with any of their own), so I am taking a soil sample to confirm it. My confidence in vets has been shaken because I have had tragic experiences with them doing very little to help my dogs but charging me up the ying yang for tests. My last Golden Retriever died in my arms at home with congestive heart failure because my vet at the time sent her home with only a prescription of lasix. Sydney's previous vet gave her Rimadyl when he knew darn well she was on her second treatment for giardia and was passing some blood in her stools! I know you don't know me from Adam but I just want it to be clear that I am trying very hard to figure this out because the vets in my life have not been very helpful in difficult diagnosis. They are great with ear infections, vaccines and orthopedics but when it comes to metabolism and more complicated body systems they fall short. As has been mentioned before they are terrible with nutrition which may be a great solution to Sydney's condition. I am supplementing her with white rice on my own to help settle her GI tract and to fill her up a little more so she quits eating dirt. Even though intuitively I feel she has something lacking in her diet or in her ability to absorb certain nutrients I am not getting any help from the vet who has all of the metabolic training so I am at a loss. As you might be able to tell I am pissed today. Sydney is not getting better but she is holding her own at the moment. Nothing has changed since I took her in on Tuesday and nothing is being suggested by my vet to fix whatever is going on. Try to be a bit more considerate of people when they are under emotional and financial stress in these situations. I have spent over $1000 this week with no answers.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I am sorry you took my effort to explain things and/or figure them out as an accusation. I certainly did not intend it that way.

[cheryl & oliver]

I am so sorry that you are going thru this nightmare. I don't know where u live, but is there a college in your area that migt have a veternary school? Somtimes they have Vets that see pets, not sure what they would charge either, but maybe they would have some ideas. My friend took her dog to Cornell University, and her dogs had kidney problems, and they were the only ones to help her eith any success...Hope things get better for you and Sydney soon...Hugs to both of you..

[Adina P]

The binder combines with phosphorus in food (which there is plenty of) and essentially 'binds' it in the GI tract so the dog poops it out instead of absorbing it into the bloodstream to add more fuel to the fire. Some binders are calcium based, others are not. I have no idea what is used in the canine world, but the calcium based ones are cheapest (for people even Tums are used at times).

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

I agree with what everyone else says. I think it is unlikely it is kidney damage because it usually occurs over a longer period of time (and after chronic issues occur). My chihuahua has it now but he suffered greatly during the pet food recalls of summer 2007. He lived through it and 2 years later, we discovered the long-term kidney problems.
And I would get another opinion if you are unsatisfied with your vet's prognosis.