Labradoodle a "real breed"?

[Susan, Zeke. Lily & Jasper]

It's ironic that the one place I've had experience with that considers Labradoodles a breed is the shelter where I adopted Lily. You see, they charge one price for pure breeds and a lesser one for mixed breeds. They even list their dogs as Labradoodles instead of Lab Mixes or Poodle Mixes. This shelter seems to have a respect for these wonderful dogs that I have not encountered other places, including my vet who lists my dogs as Lab Mixes even when I filled out their paperwork as Labradoodles! Also, where we go to obedience classes, numerous people have been so enchanted by the dogs, wanting to touch and meet, only to put up a wall when they ask what they are. Hopefully if the First Family adopts a Labradoodle some of this prejudice will subside! ( Thanks, I just needed to vent )

[Trowby]

Hi Susan
I don't know if it is going to get better or worse if the Obamas get a Doodle. I do think that people who look down their noses at our beautiful doodles are 1) jealous and 2) don't have any idea what they ate talking about. Every breed in the AKC exadpt for a couple of ancient ones was created by breeding selectively and cross breeding over a long time. So purebred is just a name. Our multigen doodles are just as purebred. The only place I've really run into that nonsense is at our groomer - who is a nice woman but kind of looks down her nose at Sage. Everyone else is enchanted by her and want their own.

Guess I wanted to vent too. LOL.

Trowby

[Brenda Hetzel]

I thought i've heard that doodles were submitted to the AKC to be recognized as a breed. But from what I understand it takes patience and perseverance to be accepted. What comes to mind is the Italian Spinoli? Did I spell that right. Anyway I wouldn't doubt that eventually either Australian labradoodle or some other proven line will be recognized it just might be later than we would all like.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

On average, it takes 75 years to develop a new breed to the point that it will "breed true", which, as Adina mentioned, means that the dogs all look relatively the same & are immediately identifiable as members of their breed. It also requires a very controlled breeding program, involving keeping track of every dog used throughout the period of development.
Prior to "being submitted to the AKC to be recognized as a breed", the new breed-to-be must be admitted to the AKC "Foundation Stock Service" program, which is described as: "The AKC provides this service to allow these purebred breeds to continue to develop while providing them with the security of a reliable and reputable avenue to maintain their records." FSS breeds status is maintained for an extended period of years before recognition as a breed is granted. Some not-yet-recognized breeds currently holding AKC "Foundation Stock" status include such well-known purebreds as the Cane Corso, Bolognese, Coton de Tulear, Bluetick Coonhound, Leonberger, and Bergamasco.
Based on this information, I do not think that AKC recognition is going to happen in our lifetimes. I don't particularly care, I love mixed-breed dogs, but for those who keep arguing about how all purebreds were developed with a mixture of breeds, this is how it happens.

[Adina P]

No, I would not say that Labradoodles or Goldendoodles are a breed by the technical definition. By the technical definition, a dog that is a breed bred to another dog of the same breed will produce a litter of puppies that are essentially the same in looks and general temperament ( as far as can be so-- obviously not all labradors behave in the exact same way).

So, I have a hard time attaching the word breed to either of my two dogs that are clearly half of one breed and half of the other. Even higher generation doodles aren't technically a breed.

I like to consider my labradoodle a type of dog :-) rather than a breed.

But honestly, I couldn't care less about breed status.

[Adina P]

It IS extremely confusing for the non-doodle person. That's why I think there is so much false information in the media about shedding. I have two opposing thoughts on this:

1) The labradoodle "term" was invented to describe the original mix of Labrad(or)- and (p)oodle and it is most fitting for lab-poodle crosses for that reason in my opinion. I think it makes more sense for a dog with strictly lab and poodle in its background to have this name.

2) There are German "Shepherds" and Australian "Shepherds" and all sorts of "hounds" and so if people can figure out the differences there...well...they should be able to figure out the difference here too I guess. German shepherds are no longer only coming from Germany.

Not sure what the right answer is other than the fact people need to READ lots before buying things or creatures.

[Sally, Echo and Emmi]

I just brought home my little bundle of joy on Saturday and the health certificate says Australian Labradoodle under then breed heading. I just looked at it after reading this thread. Very interesting.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

This may be of interest to those of you who are wondering about this business of "real breeds". The Black Russian terrier is one of the most recent breeds to be recognized by the AKC; additionally, they may be of interest to doodle-aficionados because they are also large, shaggy, non-shedding dogs with an appearance similar to doodles, or maybe giant schnoodles. They were developed in Russian from several breeds, including giant schnauzers & airedale terriers. The initial breeding program began in the 30's, and the AKC recognition came in 2004. This is a link to the American BRT club with history & photos.
http://brtca.org/default.aspx

[Adina P]

They are quite lovely! I'd love to see them without the 'breed' cut that covers their eyes. It says they do shed (less than a lab, more than an airedale). But their purpose is protection and are territorial so not the goofy, friendly, happy to love all attitude of labs and poodles.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I did know about the protection aspect, but had not noticed the shedding factor. I first learned about them by meeting one, and you would absolutely LOVE the way they look without that show cut...they are really adorable. But, a lot of dog!

[Jacque Reynolds]

Well, Susan, the dictionary defination of "breed" is:
1 : a group of usually domesticated animals or plants presumably related by descent from common ancestors and visibly similar in most characters
2 : a number of persons of the same stock
So, is Labradoodle a breed? Yes, it is.
One of the legitimate reasons that a Labradoodle is not recognized by the AKC is that it doesn't breed "true" and that is about the only sensible thing I can find with their argument. LOL From there, however, it boils down to the authority of the AKC to proclaim that a dog is a breed. To me, that is foolishness and rather bigoted.
The point these people are trying to make is that it is not a "recognized" breed...meaning that the almighty AKC has not recognized it. Other kennel clubs have. So, is it a "recognized" breed? Yes, just not through AKC.
My point and my perspective is that the AKC is a LONGTIME kennel club. That's all. A club. Sure, in the days of its inception, belonging to the club legitimized some breeding lines because they could prove, through pedigree, that the dog was bred to have certain traits and health standards...this information came from the championship lines and judgments from the AKC designates.
Now, however, the AKC is little more than an elite club. Membership can be purchased and records can be falsified. So, to me, the value of an AKC paper is lost.
As an example, I purchased a Poodle from champion lines, an excellent AKC pedigree. Long story short...it turns out that the breeder lied to MY breeder and the papers provided were not accurate. With much research and costly DNA testing, through the AKC, I was able to PROVE the lineage of my dog...to even better lines...but the AKC refused to correct my registration WITHOUT THE PERMISSION of that breeder who lied! Go figure.
I am only one example.
So, how valuable is an AKC standing? To many, it is everything...to me, nothing. I buy dogs not papers. If someone wants a paper, by all means they should buy one of the many recognized breeds...but if they want a great, healthy dog...they would do well to look beyond the AKC.
I believe that the AKC, in order to legitimize their claim to superiority, should require DNA matching on ALL registered dogs, as far back as they can go. At the very least, they should correct proven mistakes or falsification in the lines. They won't, however, because the ramifacations are enormous...can you imagine if they corrected my dog's pedigree? Where would that stop and how would that affect the legitimacy of every dog registered through that one bad breeder? Still, to hold themselves out as the one and only legitimate designate of a "breed" is just plain silly, given all of the problems they have within their own records.
If the AKC required DNA testing I might be more concerned with what the membership means because, then, it might mean something.