Mushy stool AGAIN

[NS]

Our puppy is now almost 6 months old, he has gone through 3 rounds of meds for Giardia, we finally got a negative test and thought he was OK!!! His stool was firm for 2 or so weeks -- we were feeding him Fromm Puppy Gold, giving him his Florentero probiotic 2x a day and sweet potato daily.

Our vet told me to quit giving him the probiotic daily and switch to giving him the probiotic every 4 days/2 a day. I questioned her because how can a probiotic be bad to take daily. She pushed back and felt strongly that he didn't need it daily. Now he has mushy, smelly poops. Could it be the Fromm? Could it be Giardia again? I called the vet and she wants to do another test on the stool, she wants to put him on some meds (not sure what until I pick it up), wants me to give him the probiotic daily and add metamucil  with his meals for extra fiber. 

What do you think?? 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The HK Embark formula doesn't contain chicken; it's a turkey based formula. It also has higher protein and almost twice the fiber of the Verve formula, and fiber is very, very important for dogs with GI issues. I think it is going to be very hard to tell if any food is helping while he is on the meds, and the Metamucil, Gentle Digest & probiotics are also going to help a lot, so any improvements you see may be attributable to those and not the the switch from chicken to beef. The real test will be when you stop the meds. But I do prefer the HK Embark formula for dogs with stool issues. 

I'm very glad to be able to help. :-)

[NS]

So it continues.... Day 12,of metrotrazidone and stools are formed but super soft. He has been on bland diet of ground beef, sweet potato or pumpkin with Metamucil plus his florentero probiotic and a gentle diet. Our vet wants me to try a fish diet. She is also open to rabbit or lamb. Whar do you think???

As always thank you!!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, this is the same vet who think that metronidazole is the same thing as Tylan, so my opinion and hers are going to be two very different things. I think you need another vet and to get her off the metronidazole. There is a problem with her GI tract and until you get that resolved with the correct diagnosis and meds, no food is going to make much difference. The longer he stays on the metro, the more difficult it is going to be to restore balance.

What happened to the plan to try Honest Kitchen? 

[NS]

Thanks Karen. Well I bought the HK Zeal because perhaps he will tolerate fish better than chicken or beef or turkey. Today is his last day on Metro and I will slowly transition him. I know you suggested turkey but I'm hoping fish will be easy fir him to tolerate. In terms of protein it seems comparable butnim not sure about the fiber. Do you think this is a sound plan for Bodi??

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Here's the thing. There is absolutely no reason to believe that he has any kind of problem tolerating any kind of animal protein. The loose stool and digestive issues are not due to his not tolerating chicken, beef, or anything else, but rather to having had a bad case of giardia and then having been on antibiotics continuously, which has created a problem with the bacterial balance in his GI tract. I don't know any other way to say this. The kind of animal protein he eats is not causing the problem, and it's doubtful that changing it is going to fix the problem. 

When you look at a dog food formula, you have to look at the nutrient percentages and not just the source of protein. The Embark formula has 29% protein, 18% fat and 9.6% fiber. The Zeal formula has 35.5% protein, 8.5% fat, and 5.8% fiber. So they are very different in that sense. The Zeal formula may be very good for him, but i have no experience with it. I don;t recall any FG members who have discussed using the Zeal formula for digestive issues. I do know that several FG members have had great success using the Embark formula for digestive issues and diarrhea, which is why I recommended it to you..

Either way, I would wait a few days before making any changes in his food, because stopping the metro in itself is going to make a huge difference in his stool. if you stop the metro and change his food, and he gets raging diarrhea, will that be because the metro has been withdrawn, or because he can't tolerate fish, or because he can't tolerate a dehydrated raw diet? There will be no way to know. I can't stress this enough, it is crucial with any type of digestive issue that you only change one thing at a time. If meds are being changed, started, stopped, increased, whatever, don;t change the food at the same time. 

[F, Calla & Luca]

Karen, I often say this re: medications. One change at a time, for the very same reasons.

[NS]

Well so far so good! Bodi's stools have been formed and very firm.

Per your advice I started SLOWLY transitioning Bodi to the HK Zeal last Thursday and have continued with the probiotic + gentle digest + pumpkin + ground beef.

I also found this great product called "FIRM UP Pumpkin" by Diggin your Dog. It is a pumpkin concentrate and you mix the powder with water and mix in the food. I think this product has helped Bodi far more than the pumpkin or sweet potato. Karen have you ever heard of this product? The ingredients are pumpkin & apple fiber. Guaranteed analysis: crude protein (min)4%, fat (min).5%,fiber(max)40% and moisture (max)8%. They also have a product that include cranberry. 

I think we are finally on the right track. I will try the EMBARK next but for now the Zeal seems to be agreeing with him. 

Karen, how long do you think I should continue the gentle digest + probiotic? I was planning on purchasing the Proviable probiotic once I finish the Florentero but wondered if I need to always give him the Gentle Digest too.

As always, thanks so much for all your help. I feel like we are making progress!!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I wouldn't make any further food changes for awhile. Stay with the Zeal. I will look into the pumpkin supplement, but from the info you provided, it looks okay. 

You will not need to give the Gentle Digest forever, but for now, I would not make any further changes. You're transitioning to a new food and have also added the pumpkin product. That's two changes, I would not make any more for a couple of weeks at least. Let's take things one day at a time. :-)

[NS]

ok, thanks again Karen. 

[Jackie B and family]

Unfortunately we will be joining you and your puppy on the Giardia adventure. I just got a call from my vet confirming that is what he has and I will be off to pick up his meds shortly. I am relieved that there is so much support here to help everyone out with this issue.