Need advice on how to help my Bob....

[Lori, Winnie, Bob and Indie]

Hi all! I was going to post this in the Training area, but it looks to be not a very active page, so I am going to ask here. I need your help and expertise on how to help my Bob. I particularly need those of you that have an excellent handle on "dog psychology" to chime in. First, some background, sorry it might get long...

We raised Winnie from puppyhood and when she was about 1.5 years old we added Bob to the mix. At that time he was 2 years old, and rehomed as his growing family "didn't have time for him." He spent 3 months at another home in the interim before coming to us. He was well cared for and no abuse that I'm aware of. He and Winnie got along well right from the start- playing together, no visible jealousy on Winnie's part, etc. He had no training, so I've taught him the basics- come, sit, down, stay, wait, walking nicely on leash. I think he peed in the house once during the first week he was here- I chalked that up to being nervous in our home. To help Winnie feel like we weren't ignoring her in favor of the "new dog" we always made sure to feed her first, let her outside first, pet her first, etc. It became clear, though, that he is the "head dog." He's very gentle,  but a little "pushy" when he wants something. If he wants to play, he will stand and stare at Winnie, let out little "play with me" yips, etc. until she either decides to play with him or lets him know that she isn't interested. If she wasn't interested, he would move on to us and do the same thing- stand and bark at us to let us know that he wanted to play. We would purposely ignore him to let him know that he can't get everything that he wants right when he wants it. He tries to do the same thing with meal routines. We joke that Bob needs  his "emergency breakfast" because he stands at the foot of the bed at 6:25am sharp and lets out little yips  at increasing loudness until we get up. Again, we try to delay it. And, he needs to sit, stay and "wait" to eat until we tell him "Ok." He has gotten a lot more affectionate in the 1.5 years that we have had him- initially he was a little "standoffish" but he now he more lovey and likes to give an receive attention. So, that is Bob- great dog, kind, gentle, but a little pushy. No other major behavior problems. Winnie, BTW, adjusted well to having Bob in the family- no behavior problems, loves to play with Bob (when she feels like it! haha), etc.

This past June we added Indie- a 1 year old Standard Poodle- to the mix. He also was a rehome- his family had 2 older Chihuahuas and they could see that Indie needed bigger dogs to play with. Indie is a fantastic dog- super smart, very gentle and loving, playful, etc. He was initially on the shy side, but it didn't take long until him and Bob were playing. Indie didn't have any training, so I taught him everything that the other 2 know. He likes to be the first one to bolt out the door, so now all 3 need to "wait" at the door. The 3 of them have got along great right from the start-never any growling or snapping, no visible jealousy issues with my husband or I. The only problem during those first couple of weeks after we added Indie was that both Bob and Indie took turns peeing on a painted chest that I had in the living room. I moved it downstairs, and they peed on it down there. Finally I moved it to another area they couldn't get to and the problem was solved. No more competition peeing! :-) That was the end of June. Bob and Winnie play inside, and Bob and Indie play outside. Winnie and Indie rarely play together, and they both seem fine with that. The 2 boys need more exercise than Winnie, so we do a lot of fetching with Bob and Indie, and they both go to a doggy daycare once a week or so. Sometimes we take Indie by himself and let Bob and Winnie stay home. They get plenty of exercise, are well behaved in car rides, well socialized, etc. We try to take each of them out by themselves to different social situations. All 3 have run of the house when we are gone, and other than Indie chewing things a few times, there have been no other issues. No resource guarding, they sleep next to each other, etc We full soooo blessed to have such a great little "pack"! Except for one issue that has started to creep up...

Bob is doing some inappropriate peeing. Ever since we first got him he has always tended to pee where Winnie pees. She goes, finishes, and then he walks up to her spot and pees on it. Fine, I didn't think anything of it. I think a lot of dogs do that. She will often do the same thing and pee on his spots. When Indie came into the mix, Bob would sometimes do the same thing- pee on Winnie's spot and then Indie's spot. There was that peeing on the chest last June, and then no other problems until last month. I looked outside about a month ago and saw that Bob wasn't waiting until Winnie was done- he was lifting his leg and peeing right by her. It was very cold out, and Bob is NOT the smartest dog, so I thought maybe he was just being inpatient. Lol Then I noticed another time that he was literally peeing ON her. And then another day he peed ON Indie. I realize that we are partly to blame in not nipping this in the bud when it was happening. We have a large fenced in backyard- we let them out, and then they let us know when they are ready to come back it. It is the dead of winter in North Dakota, and I am not getting bundled up to supervise them outside. But now three times there has also been pee inside the house. The first time there was a sprinkle upstairs near some toys. A couple of weeks ago I was sifting through some old boxes downstairs, some of which contained items from a dog that I had 13 years ago. I turned around, and there was pee on a bag of trash. I didn't see who did it, but I'm thinking it was Bob. And, this past weekend I was out of town and my husband told me that he found a sprinkle of pee outside of his office. Not a large spot like one would see if someone "really had to go." Again- he didn't see it happen. A while back I took both Bob and Indie over to my mother's new house. I made sure both of them peed before going inside, and then Bob promptly walked up to a plant sitting on her floor, lifted his leg and peed. :-(  The pee spots inside our house have been cleaned with Nature's Miracle, and the "peed on dog" was bathed. Both Bob and Indie were neutered before we got them. 

OK, so I realize that he is marking. I have also noticed that he is seeming to be a little less "settled" lately- he is following me around a list more more, barking again when he wants to play, not wanting to come when called, etc. Nothing major- just a bit more noticeable.  As much as I know about dogs, I don't know how to help Bob. He is clearly the leader of the 3 dogs, but we need him to know that WE are the leader of him and that he can be secure in that. When he started peeing on Winnie and Indie, I probably did the exact opposite of what I should have done- I let those 2 out first so that they could squat without Bob coming up to them. Did that make him question his "pack order"? Where do I go from here? I need to help him feel secure and confident, but he also needs to listen to my husband and I better. He has gotten kind of bad about coming when called, so I'm going to start working on that with him more. We have worked on "leadership" with all 3 of them right from the start- i.e. Feeding times- we dish out their food and all 3 sit and wait until they get the "OK" to eat, nobody goes outside until "OK," nobody gets to jump into or out of the car until "OK," we go through doors before them, etc. If they want attention, they have to sit for it. They are all VERY good about doing these things. So, I don't know what else I can do in that realm. Do we need to start clearly delineating that Bob gets petted first, fed first, etc.? Winnie is the only one that has gone through training classes- both Bob and Indie I have taught at home- very unstructured. Do you think taking Bob to classes might be helpful? I need some very concrete ideas of what to do to help my beloved Bob! We have such a happy little family, and I can't let this peeing and insecurity grow into a bigger problem.

[Ginny Nightingale]

I read the whole thing but I am not sure anyone can tell you what to do here--it might take too long! But I think you have or are trying the right things--and maybe taking him to a class and working with a behaviorist would be the way to go. It seems to me that being "top dog" when there are now two other dogs to dominate might be challenging to him so he has resorted to this peeing thing to make sure he is getting his point across! But I really don't know. I would consult an expert at this point if I were you.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

  I feel that you have total understanding of why this is happening. I have no  suggestions as to how to change this behavior other than to consult an experienced trainer or behaviorist.  I can tell you that my dogs pee on each other's pee and one in a while get some on another dog - I do think that part is more accidental in our case. And when the cousin dogs visit, we sometimes find that someone has marked inside.  Please let us know what you do in the future to curb the behavior.

[Lynda Kamrath]

I have three dogs too and a very similar story to yours.  The peeing can be annoying, especially if it is in the house.  My problem is my youngest dog likes to eat my books when she is unsupervised in the house.  She also eats things that are in boxes or plastic bags.  She is tall enough to reach things on the counters and is still young.  She is the only female and the boys always pee on top of her pee, but that is outside.  I have seen Harpo back up a tree and pee on it so he marks higher on the tree.  Peeing is a dog's way of giving messages to other dogs.  I guess a behaviorist would be the best alternative for you right now.  You explained yourself very well, and a dog psychologist or behaviorist might be able to help you decide what is best for your little pack.  But, don't think that this is totally unusual.  It is just their dog talk to each other and other dogs who may be around.

[Lori, Winnie, Bob and Indie]

Thanks, ladies, for your input! I don't think that we have a behaviorist in town, but I will do some checking around. I have never had a dog pee in the house after it was house trained, but then again I have never had more than one at a time! So, this was kind of freaking me out and I envisioned poor Bob turning my house into a Pee Pit. Lol It helps to know that this isn't all that unusual, especially with males. We are going to do more training with Bob around the house, and make sure that we spend more time with him by himself. I'll let you know how it goes!