Need Help...The Fighting has Reached an all Time High

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

The fighting has increased and I just don’t know what to do.  I am 2,000 miles away from home and my two doodles and I feel completely helpless and worried.  I am looking for any suggestions.  I apologize for the length of this post. 

 

Here is a little background:

We had Cubbie for about 3 years when we adopted Ollie in 2011.  From day one, we struggled with issues between the 2 dogs.  We trained Ollie separately (Cubbie already had his CGC) and we also took both dogs to a training class together.  Ollie now has his CGC, so both dogs have been through a decent amount of training.  We worked with our trainer and finally got to a point where we weren’t constantly worried about a fight breaking out.  We were able to go 1-2 months between incidents, which was actually a big improvement, when suddenly things started getting worse.

 

In August I got a new job that requires us to move 2,000 miles away.  My DH has to stay back in Indiana for the remainder of the year (he is a teacher) while I move to WA.  In the month before I moved, I was super stressed and very busy trying to get the house ready to sell and say all my good-byes.  That is when things started to get a little worse with the dogs.  They seemed to get more easily aggravated with each other but I just assumed that they were reacting to my high stress levels.

 

Once I left for WA, DH didn’t have any issues for the first 2.5 weeks.  Everything seemed like it was back to normal.  Then I came home for a 2 day stay before departing for the doodle cruise.  The first night I was home I was sitting on the couch holding Ollie and when Cubbie simply walked past, Ollie growled at him.  So I put Ollie in another room to prevent the situation from escalating.  Once I let Ollie back out, he went and laid down on the kitchen floor, but Cubbie just stood there staring at him and you could tell that the tension was rising again.  So they were back in separate rooms.  The whole time I was gone on the cruise, the dogs were mostly ok. 

 

I returned from the cruise on Saturday afternoon.  Saturday evening we had a HUGE fight.  My husband and I were sitting on the couch watching tv.  Ollie was chewing on a bone and then the next thing we know they were attacking each other.  We didn’t see what happened so we don’t know who/what started it.  They were rolling around, teeth flashing, growling, and snarling.  Cubbie had Ollie pinned and was tearing at his ear.  Ollie was screaming (or the doggie equivalent).  I used an air horn until it ran out and that didn’t stop them.  I threw a pillow at them and still nothing.  I finally grabbed Cubbie by the back legs and lifted up and tried to pull him off Ollie.   When I finally pulled them apart, I stood there holding Cubbie up at chest level to keep them away from each other.  Ollie jumped up to try to get Cubbie and got my arm instead.  That was over a week ago and I still have a rather large bruise on my arm.  We kept them apart the rest of the night and then most of Sunday too.  The only time they were together on Sunday was when we took them both on a long walk while we had a showing on the house.

 

Yesterday DH had to separate them again because they were getting tense with each other.  But tonight was the worst.  DH called me at work and said “if we don’t do something about these dogs they are going to kill each other.”  Needless to say, I wasn’t really able to focus on work for the rest of the day.  Apparently Ollie had been laying on the couch and Cubbie was standing near the couch.  Nothing had been going on.  No toys were involved.  All of a sudden, Cubbie jumped up and started to attack Ollie.  DH said that Ollie tried to get away twice but Cubbie just kept going after him.  I am not sure what all DH tried, but he said that eventually he was able to get Cubbie off Ollie by swatting him with a pillow to get them to stop long enough to step between them and then used the pillow to herd Cubbie into another room.  I told him to keep them separate for the rest of the night, to take them out to potty individually, and make them sleep in separate rooms instead of the bedroom with him.  He is going to let them out in the morning individually and then put them in separate rooms to feed them breakfast and then leave in separate rooms when he goes to work.  My parents are going to go over in the middle of the day to let each dog out separately.  I am so stressed out; I just don’t know what to do. 

 

At first I thought they just might be feeding off my stress, but I’m not there now.  We moved their beds into storage and put up most of their toys so our house doesn’t look as “doggie” when potential home buyers come in for a showing.  There are strange people leaving strange smells in our home.  I was gone, then I came home, then I was gone, then I came home, then I was gone.  Are they just stressed out and confused?  DH and my brother will be driving the dogs out to WA starting on 10/25 where I will be living with them in temporary housing (a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment) until our house is done in December?  Am I going to make it?  I will take any advice or suggestions that anyone can possibly offer.

[Doris, Knox & Flash]

Karen, I am so in awe of you!  You are always able to make sense of a situation when others of us can't!

Amy -- I have no advice to offer but to copy Karen and say "hang in there."  I think when your life returns to normal or to a "new normal" your dogs will adjust.  I think they miss their mommy!!!

[Lisa, Daisy & Dexter]

Amy I am sure you are so worried. I can't offer any real advice but tell you about situations that happen with our Daisy.

As you know we are a one dog family, however we have a granddog and she visits often. When we are all outside the two dogs don't play together but play nicely beside each other. When we come in, after about 5 minutes Daisy will typically take leave of the situation. She does not like all the commotion in her home. She will go deep into our bedroom closet, we leave the door open so she can. If Lilly notices she is missing she will go in search of her and usually finds her. Luckily Daisy does not attach but she will "loudly bark her off" and Lilly gets the hint and leaves.

The above situation proves the fact that our animals like their lives normal, not all confused and things not the same. I feel sure that the both of them will settle after a time frame of getting used to their new home and lives.

One thing I did wonder however, you said both will be moving to a new temporary housing before you are all back together and until your new house is built. Would it be possible for your DH to keep one of the dogs with him and you have the other until the permanent "together" happens, since they are separated now for the most part maybe keeping them that way until you are all together would keep all of your stress levels down.

Hope is what you have and I think when everything settles so will the two of them. Good Luck.

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

I thought about that, but DH is driving them out here at the end of the month and that was really the only time that he could make that drive.  DH is a high school teacher and softball coach, so he is super busy in the spring and is away from the house at unusual hours.  Once he is done wtih the school year, he will be flying out here and my company will ship his car across country.  Plus i'm afraid that separating them for the next 8 months will put us back at square one and we did not have any easy time adding Ollie to the family the first time around.

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

Wow, sounds like some stress that you really didn't need right now.  I really don't have any experience with this except I wondered as I was reading this if they were getting much exercise with all of the change in every ones schedules.  Sounds like you have it handled once they get out to you with a dog walker and daycare, but is DH able to get them the exercise they need right no while they are with him? 

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

I asked him about that and he said that he has been giving them their daily walks and takes them to daycare on Saturdays to let them blow of some steam.  They were at daycare together on Saturday and he said they pretty much slept most of Sunday, but then Monday is when he had the problem.  And it was after they had already been walked for the day.

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Amy, I think you have gotten some great advice, but I wanted to say I am so sorry you are having to deal with all this at a time when your life is already topsy turvy.  Personally, I think it will settle down once you and your husband are living back together and things are back to normal. I am sure all the changes have your dogs confused.  How scary, though, and all I can say is, "hang in there." Please keep us updated.

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

Thanks Laurie.  It is so hard to feel excited about a new job and new house when this is going on.  If I make it through this without getting an ulcer and grey hair, it will be a miracle.  lol

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

Amy - I just want to add that I am also so sorry to hear about this, more stress that you don't need at this time.  I'm sure that the dogs are very stressed out also.  Stuart adapts easily - Rooney gets very nervous about situations (like seeing the luggage come out) - he knows something is changing and he doesn't like it.  Could either Ollie or Cubbie go to daycare a couple of days a week?  A tired dog after a day of play just wouldn't have as much energy to fight with a sibling.  Hang in there - once you are all together again and in your new home - it will be a new beginning.

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

That is a good idea.  I will have to talk to my parents to see if they could maybe drop them off a couple times during the week.  DH leaves for work at 6am and the daycare doesn't open till 7am.  I worry about my parents trying to get the dogs into daycare though because Ollie gets leash reactive and I'm afraid to ask them to deal with that.  They just have to make it 2 more weeks in Indiana and then they will be out here and can go to daycare everyday.  I have already decided that i ready to pay for daily daycare for awhile even if it is more than a lot of people pay in rent.  It is better to pay for the daycare than have to pay an emergency vet to treat the results of a bad fight.

[Lisa, Daisy & Dexter]

Probably the daycare has some sort of package deal for full timers...I know Camp BowWow did, it went from $25 a day to $16, the other daycare I could buy a punch card for $150 for 10 days otherwise it was $22 per day.

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

The daycare near my office charges $500 for a 1 month pass.  I just hope they give some sort of discount for the second dog.  Either way, discount or not, they are still going to go to daycare.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

With everything we've been through with Murph, I've learned from the Trainers and the  Behaviorist that dogs need two things.....routine/consistency and leadership.  I'm guessing that with everything going on in your life right now, they've lost both of those and so they're reacting to that.  Consistency lets them know what is expected of them and in turn what they can expect from you and their environment.  I'm guessing that you've played the role of "leader" in their lives, and now you're gone most of the time.  I believe that in the absence of a strong leader, the dogs will try to fill that role.  Since there are two of them, they are likely vying for that position, which often leads to conflict.  If it your DH who has always been in the leadership role, then none of this applies, but I'm guessing that's not the case.  I believe the ultimate "cure" will be when you're all back together, but you'll need some management techniques in the meantime.

If you have a good Behaviorist in your area, I think that having a consultation is a wonderful idea.  I learned so much from my recent session with Murphy.  Your Vet may be able to recommend one with a proven track record.  When Murphy is at his "worst" he will sometimes "attack" Guinness, but it's more about intimidation than anything else.  I manage that by staying alert for any of the body language signs.   For now, I would not give them bones or any high value treats....if they're vying for that "top dog position" then they will fight over valued resources.  Even having one on the couch places that dog in a higher position than the other which can be a problem with what's going on.  Your DH is going to have to take a really strong leadership position in your absence.  Whenever the Doodles are together he should be watching for any of the "signals" that they are trying to "one up" each other.  I'd correct for any signs of dominant behavior.  Any growling or vocalization should be corrected.  I would continue to feed them together with your DH managing that process.  Put the food down, make them wait, then give them the okay to eat.  When they stop eating (whether they finish or not) the dishes get picked up.  I've found the whole process of feeding is a great way to reinforce who's  "in charge". 

I really do believe this is temporary, but I know how stressful it can be in the meantime.  I would keep them separated for now unless one of you is there to manage their behaviors.  Please keep us posted on how things are going.