One more pet insurance question?

[Joe R.]

I've already decided to go with PetPlan, but I got one question though. Why the $30.00 difference in premium if I list them as Goldendoodles vs. Mixed Breed (Medium)? It's more expensive when they're identified as a Goldendoodle.

[Wendy and Eddie]

Clearly if one has a "designer dog," one will pay more for insurance. If one just has a "mutt," then, oh well. :-)

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

I'm wondering though if you listed the dog as a GoldenDoodle on his file at the vet if this is going to create a problem for you having him listed as a Mixed Breed if you should have to file a claim.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

My understanding is that the rates are developed based on the actual experience of a particular breed (or group of similar breeds). It would make sense to me that they are paying less claims on true "mixed breeds" than on Golden Retrievers or GoldenDoodles.

[Lori (Wilson and Woody's Mum)]

I also have PetPlan and noticed "Labradoodle" was more expensive than "Mixed Breed." Kind of a mixed signal....they aren't recognized as "breeds" but yet are treated as such in relation to pet insurance costs. I mentioned that to my rep; he really didn't have an answer. But like Lucy said, if your vet shows "GD" and it doesn't match your insurance, any claim you make could be denied. So I guess an extra $30 bucks now saves grief later!

[Joe R.]

That was my thinking also Lori. I figured the $30 wasn't enough savings to risk a denied claim. Found out another thing when I did the application for Lilly after getting Gus's policy. They don't actually give the 10% discount for a second dog if you recieve discounts for other things. I was told since I got the discount for Lilly being microchipped and the 5% for applying on-line. Either way I'm glad I finally got off my butt and got it done. Peace of mind for only about $60.00 a month.

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

Wow Joe .... I don't want to live where you do. Mine is just $47 each per QUARTER. It really is worth the piece of mind though I know what you mean. Now everytime I let them out to play I just think about the pain they will go through when to tear a ligament bashing into each other vs. how many thousands of dollars it is going to cost me also. Hopefully you saw my previous post also that if you end up at a specialist (ortho or allergist) there is a 30% co-pay over and above what ever deductible you selected.

[Joe R.]

We live about 20 miles south of Washington DC. A DC zip code was about $60 a year more than my zip. Which plan did you go with? We went with the Gold plan with $200.00 deductible & 100% reimbursement. Oh the $60.00 is for both ($28 and change each).

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

We have the same plan as you do and it was like 18 or 19 a month per dog. Of course we live out in the sticks, small town, rural America so our Vets are cheaper in most cases.

[Dr. Judith P. LaVorgna]

Joe...I'd have to see the list of dogs which have a higher fee, but I'm wondering if with GD's particularly they are looking at the significant illnesses possible through the GR and Poodle lines when combined. Perhaps they are combining those to see a potential for something to go wrong, sort of profiling if you know what I mean.Not unlike what human insurance carriers do to smokers, obese, pre=existing conditions. I would certainly call back and get someone who actually knows why. It sounds a little bit discriminatory if it is just LD and GD. It's always worth the $60.00 for peace of mind, but it surely would be interesting to know...and interesting to know if the other plans have a higher fee for them as well. LD's do not have such significance tho, so I'm at a loss there.

[Joe R.]

I agree Dr. Judith. I think it's due to the issues each breed has a history of. If you go on their website you can see the complete list when you start a quote.

[Dr. Judith P. LaVorgna]

Joe, you know I'm not only a Doodle owner and lover of same, but this year the e-agent for the Doodle Messenger. So I am pretty much in touch with the owners of the now 5 Doodles sick and so far alive on those pages now. And as I talk with them (e-mail things and get things) I hear pretty much what is and what isn't covered. It is scary. If you read Bella's story, the last Doodle added, you might feel the way I did. A sometime acute case of diabetes as is hers can also cause blindness via pooling of insulin in the eyes which turn into something like hard sugar coating over the eyes, not in all cases and not in all breeds or mixed brees. In Bella's case (I think it was Pet Plan but I'm not positive...it's in the submission part of the story) the diabetes is pretty much covered. But for the cataract surgery...nada.

Well, when we add a story, we always add a long paragraph about the disease or injury somewhat in layman's terms and with links or resources.. When I researched Bella's type and kind of diabetes it was pretty clear she was going to be an automatic cataract surgery OR blindness. The insurance company would not cover it. So as I wrote the research piece we add at the end I was getting steamed. I wrote something like...and remember pet insurance programs...we are watching! WELL, my colleagues on the Board...mostly my beloved webmaster said, "Whaaaat, are you crazy, lets not add that here Bella has enough worries. Well, Joe, she's right and she took it out. But I am still steamed for Bella's owners. Very expensive surgery without which she will be blind. But, not all dogs are blinded. So for Bella her cataracts are a result of insulin which keeps her alive, but to the insurance company her cataracts are from a pre-existing condition!
If you read the story of submission and then read the ending part we added, .I think you will get the same angry feeling I got. The insurance didn't cover all of Bella's many tests..some done daily just as they are with humans, coma crises, and other situations that come along with this type of diabetes. Blood, urine, needles, laboratory, adjustment of food, hourly, daily etc., etc. By the time I finished writing that piece which the Board reviews...I was ready to Lock and Load. I believe not one dollar of something like 8,000 is covered for cataracts. If it was my mother I would be arguing the case at every level I could get to, because it is not necessarily an outcome for all dogs, including Doodles.

All of this to say, the insurance companies are loaded on the side of protecting themselves from liability payouts, but in the case of Bella...she's waiting for very expensive surgery in Manhattan, trying to beat a lifetime of blindness from cataracts at age three. And, now I'm a little hazy on this tonight and I'd have to go back and double check...I don't think Goldendoodles are prone to Diabetes Mellitus, in fact it is surprisingly not present except as a poodle with genetic predispostion but not from diabetes! . Joe...it's a crap shoot I think. There are other Doodle dogs on the Messenger.. three with cancer. One has insurance, but it doesn't pay for clinical trials which the Doodle is in and has survived his original diagnoisis which is terminal by several months. Lost his entire body hair, but the majority of the treatment with insurance is on the owner for the type of treatment she sought early and quickly in attempt to save his life., AND ONE THAT MAY ONEDAY HELP MINE OR YOURS!. She sought cutting edge medicine. I would too. But the cost of that is strangling and the insurance company isn't willing to go there. Shame. Me, I would be weighing the cost of doing nothing against the cost of doing something. Every time I add those end pieces of the submission and add the sites for more information I just get sick. For Bella we added some insurance sites. I'm beginnning to believe some of these company's are getting away with murder when and if their is an unusual and not cursory illness.

I've watched while you did your research, and I'm thinking you've got the basic stuff covered pretty well policy. It's that shot out of the blue that we don't expect, and most surely would think we would get the support of the company, but...I'm really on the fence qluelstioning.. I've played the odds with my home dogs over the years by having my own savings account should one of my three need something, but I also know from this Messenger information, that like humans arguing coverage, dogs are right there with us and we are their voice

. It is so sad, I mean, those kids who are really, really ill. I guess in the long run of things, if one of the kids on the Messenger passes away, and those odds are pretty real, down the road awhile we will be able to ask those owners who had insurance if it helped or didn't. Sorry to be so long, never expected sick dogs to be part of my day to day life, or talking with Vet's around the Country on their behalf..., or talking with owners of terminally ill dogs but I don't know if we have demanded enough tor our dollar with pet insurance, on the other hand, II don't know the answers anymore...don't even sometimes know the questions.. It gets hairy and perplexing as a Doodle or any dog reaches a stage of illness that goes beyond what we think might happen. Perhaps, I could be more convinced to pay for catastrophic coverage as we can now with humans.

In my heart, this first year of work on the Messenger has been a real eye opener. In some ways I will be very happy to turn over the e-agent capacity to someone else in February. Then I'm going to go somewhere and have a good long cry. I just can't make sense of some of the non sense of pet insurance...as it appears to be applied sometimes with inequities...breed to breed, size, genetic predispositions (good they don't smoke!). Sorry...you can tell it is hitting me right in the gut and an area over which I have little control...which probably makes it more hurtful for me working with owners and their Doods.

Read Bella's story written by her Dad. I want to run to Brooklyn and throw my arms around him and tell him he did the best he could...but in reality, steam is pouring out of my nose and ears when i think of "Why?" Think routine and cursory and you will probably have great coverage...beyond that it looks to me to get iffy at best...probably about the time it is most critically needed. I so welcomed the opportunity of giving the idea of the Messenger a chance to become a voice of Doodle owners for other owners facing such finaancial burden as to change their ways of life and spending and nurturing and family dynamic, and to be doing it with people I didn't know prior to the undertaking.....but as some of these stories come in I just wonder if I shouldn't have turned my energies to a health coalition for dogs with regard to insurance rather than deal with the inequities which sometime appear and threaten to make treatment options cease rather than be explorable. I think we need to be sure we are vocal about our choices, as you have been in your search and final selection, so that we can share successes where we find them in coverage and then together press these companies toward better coverage. It sort of parallels the medical issues we face in this Country. Overall I suspect it is the Vet who either understands how to present the condition to the insurance company as to whether the dog will be covered or not. The whole thing is, seemingly, an accident waiting to happen. I hope in my dotage I am still strong enough to be an ombudsperson for my "kids" and the hairy kids of others. We really need a strong voice with regard to insurance for our companion animals...and most of us don't realize what we don't have until a critical or terminal illness lands right in our dog food dish. Oh boy, we really need to support one another in this field. I'll be there for you, you be there for me! Sorry to be so long, it's been my own personal hot button for the last several months and one I struggle with every time I look into the eyes of my three...what if?..

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I can certainly understand your passion and frustration over lack of insurance coverage on some of these heartbreaking cases. But, after spending more than 30 years in the insurance industry I must present the "other side" of this debate. We all have an obligation to be informed consumers. That means really understanding EXACTLY what is covered and what is not covered in any given policy. It means reading the policy language before you purchase a policy. Granted this can be a tedious task, but it is critical since it avoids disappointment and frustration later. I have been involved in claim situations where insureds lost their homes and everything in them due to fire or other hazards. Most expected full reimbursement, even though in many cases they had purchased basic coverage. When we would ask if they had even read their policy....the usual answer was "no". Companies cannot pay for claims where there is no coverage. In most states this isn't even legal because it is arbitrary. As you would expect, it also negatively impacts cost going forward for all other insureds in the "pool". Most policies will not cover preexisting conditions because it would result in rates that were simply unaffordable. It would generate adverse selection, which means that people wouldn't purchase the coverage until the animal was already diagnosed. This defeats the entire "spread of risk" basis of insurance in general. If a consumer has a claim that is denied, and the policy language supports that coverage exists, there are channels for escalation, up to and including the State Insurance Department. However, if the policy language excludes coverage, it is not reasonable to expect any company to pay the claim. This is just another case of "you get what you pay for".