Opinions on Prong or Shock Collars

[Kendra K. Rhoton]

Don't get me wrong... Remington is my dream dog... he really is!  But... we've been having some problems with him lately. He's always been kind of territorial of his back yard and we have mainly kept him under control for the most part these past 3 years, but lately things are getting a little out of hand. 

 

Recently, he has start charging (running full speed and barking up a storm) around the front of the house when he sees or hears someone out there. This is a problem. We always have him leashed up when he's outside mostly because we don't have a fenced in yard and also because we live around a lot of little kids and in the past Remington has ran after them to play, which pretty much scared the poo outta them... 80 lb dog running full speed at you equals scary! The problem with the charging at people or animals though, is that I'm pulled right along with him. He has hurt my shoulder, torn off one of my nails, and given me several bruises when he has these episodes. I feel it's only a matter of time before I'm going to be knocked down, or heaven forbid I lose my grip and he's lost or hit by a car. 

 

So, Dan and I are thinking about looking into a prong or shock collar to pretty much let Remington know that when he does this it's not acceptable. I've always been against this kind of stuff in the past, but at this point I don't know what else to do, and my main concern is keeping Remington as safe as possible.

What are you thoughts about prong or shock collars?  What are some other suggestions you may have to take care of the problem?

[F, Calla & Luca]

 You are right about positioning. I have posted this link many times:

http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

And we've had many discussions on this topic.

doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/training-collars-gentle-leader-vs-prong-collar?groupUrl=trainingmindsets&groupId=2065244%3AGroup%3A1338291&id=2065244%3ATopic%3A3120563&page=1#comments

doodlekisses.com/group/trainingmindsets/forum/topics/training-collars?commentId=2065244%3AComment%3A1717507&groupId=2065244%3AGroup%3A1338291

[Adina P]

I think both collars are useful tools. But you still have to do the training...the tool doesn't usually shorten training time and work. What training has he had?

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

I agree with the others that if you want to use one of those tools you should also work with a trainer who is experienced with them and can guide you through it. And don't forget to reward the positive behaviour! Good luck, I'd be interested in hearing about what you decide and how it goes...

[L.M.]

I think many of these replies are right on, but only useful when referring to training Remington how to walk on a leash on the street.  Remington needs to learn his boundaries for your yard.  No collar can teach this, unless you try using the invisible fence/collar.  (I have no experience with that.)  He needs to be trained not to run out of your yard.  I would definitely get a good trainer to help you with this, especially since he is 3 years old.  We have a physical fence for our 2 dogs, which has made life a lot easier.  The barking gets a little crazy, but at least they're contained.  I think you can put any collar in the world on Remington, but unless he knows when to stop at the end of your property, it's going to be a struggle stopping his charging behavior.      

[Kendra K. Rhoton]

Yes, Remington has no difficulty walking politely on leash... this behavior just shows itself around our yard. He is very territorial.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

We can debate collars until the next doodle generation is born.  And we have.

So, let's move this to the training group and come up with some solutions!  For example:

• Start by being out in the yard with him. Do not leave him in the yard alone.  I do have a fence, but rarely do I take my eyes off the dogs.  You have to be there when the behavior starts in order to let him know, it is not acceptable.
• Start with small distractions.  Leave a toy in the yard. Leave it, Stays, downs, all can work here.
• Corrections. Reward training, collar pops, squirt bottles. This is not a collar issue, this is a training issue
• Small steps. 

Lots more ideas here to get this behavior under control.  Heck, get rid of the collars all together and let's train

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Oh God No. Do not tie out a dog with a prong collar attached.  It will KILL the dog.

[Adina P]

Actually I think it would break the collar before it killed the dog, but regardless it would be a very bad idea.

[F, Calla & Luca]

Definitely no prong or choke unsupervised. In fact I'm not keen on tying dogs out unsupervised. I didn't think that is what was being talked about. I thought Remington was on a leash.

[Adina P]

The issue is territorialism. If you had a chain link fence he'd show barrier aggression.  Fine when the visitors entered your yard, but probably sounds like a monster when those people are on the outside of the fence. It still requires training. It's not as simple as make the dog uncomfortable enough and he'll stop.  It's not like if you shock him 'hard enough' when he barks at people he'll just stop.  It's not that simple or easy.  It needs to be part of training.  If you can give him the command 'heel' or 'come' or 'sit stay' or 'down stay' as people approach and before he goes berserk and he can obey until the people pass...you could gradually win the battle.  If he can't even think about doing any commands then it is a training hole not a matter of not having received a big enough correction.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I've been thinking more about this, and I completely agree with what Adina is saying.  Whether it's fear or dominance based (or probably a little of both), it's been self reinforcing.  He doesn't want the stranger in his territory, so he barks and charges telling them to "get out of his territory" and they do.  He got what he wanted...his approach to something he didn't like was successful.  So that's what he'll keep doing...it works.  I also agree that by simply giving him a prong collar correction or even a "shock" isn't the answer.  He still won't know what he's supposed to do in these situations.  He needs to learn how he is expected to act first...and then if he makes a "mistake" he needs to know that too.  I would work sit/stays in a part of the yard where he isn't likely to see or hear strangers going by for a while...I would use the prong collar for this but with very quick little corrections.  My guess is you won't even need to correct at this point.  I'd give lots of praise (and treats if you use them for training) at this stage too.  I don't think this should take very long to reinforce.  Then if you can get someone to help you by walking past your house, I would set up this distraction.  The minute you notice that he recognizes that there is someone there, I would put him in a sit/stay.  Correct if he doesn't comply and reward if he does.  You'll need to be very calm and authoritative, and you'll have to do it several times.  My Murphy is territorial inside the house.  If he sees strangers walking by he will run to the front window and bark.  I've taught him that he has to go to a spot on our stairs and sit quietly...he can still see outside but he can't bark.  It took some time, but now he gets what he's supposed to do.  If he sees the distraction outside before I do, he'll still bark, but then he runs to his "time out" spot on the stairs.  Good luck.

[Colleen, Jake & Baxter]

I am against either unless it is a last resort kind of thing.  Training is the only way to go when working with either of these collars.  Once you start to put fear into a dog other fears will develop.  Supervision while the dog is in the yard is key so you can catch the behavior right away.  Leaving the dog out by himself.......see above.......  Training does take time and effort but the results are well worth it :)