Opinions on Prong or Shock Collars

[Kendra K. Rhoton]

Don't get me wrong... Remington is my dream dog... he really is!  But... we've been having some problems with him lately. He's always been kind of territorial of his back yard and we have mainly kept him under control for the most part these past 3 years, but lately things are getting a little out of hand. 

 

Recently, he has start charging (running full speed and barking up a storm) around the front of the house when he sees or hears someone out there. This is a problem. We always have him leashed up when he's outside mostly because we don't have a fenced in yard and also because we live around a lot of little kids and in the past Remington has ran after them to play, which pretty much scared the poo outta them... 80 lb dog running full speed at you equals scary! The problem with the charging at people or animals though, is that I'm pulled right along with him. He has hurt my shoulder, torn off one of my nails, and given me several bruises when he has these episodes. I feel it's only a matter of time before I'm going to be knocked down, or heaven forbid I lose my grip and he's lost or hit by a car. 

 

So, Dan and I are thinking about looking into a prong or shock collar to pretty much let Remington know that when he does this it's not acceptable. I've always been against this kind of stuff in the past, but at this point I don't know what else to do, and my main concern is keeping Remington as safe as possible.

What are you thoughts about prong or shock collars?  What are some other suggestions you may have to take care of the problem?

[Suzann, Rosey & Bandit]

The prong didn't work with rosey when she had long hair as it would get caught and tangle. She used to wear a bark collar which did correct barking but not manic pacing and whimpering when people crossed by the front yard.

[Barbara B., Sasha & Oliver]

Prong collars (e-collars, e-fences) are a great tool if you (human) are properly trained and follow the instructions.  When I first got Sasha my property was fenced in on 3 sides and no fence across the front.  I did lots of research and decided to get the e-fence system.  I installed it with a friend of mine and trained Sasha for 4 weeks.  I of course tried it on myself and it does not hurt at all, it just feels weird - believe me I would never, ever put anything on my doodles that would cause them harm.  I wanted Sasha to be safe and be able to run and play in her backyard.   My system has a 3 part warning, if getting close to the wire the collar beeps, if you get a little closer it beeps, and if you get even closer then it will use a correction.  I have my system on the lowest setting and went to work with Sasha, I followed the instructions exactly as they said.  The "prongs" are not sharp and have a round ball on the end as not to damage the skin.  Sasha is very poodley and the hair around her neck is very dense and thick.  They have longer prongs that you can buy for dense fur dog but since I spent so much time training her they were not needed.  After my training period with Sasha, I then put a 100 ft. rope on her with the collar and sat in the back yard as she roamed around, ran and had a blast.  For a week I did not let her loose and would keep her on a long rope.  They provide flags to mark where you have the wire, so while training your dog you are to bring your dog around the yard and show the boundries via the flags.  While on a leash and treats in your hand you walk the parameter of the yard, you go close to the fence and you get a beep, you then bring your dog to the safe area away from the flags and then back again walking the parameter, etc. etc.  You are to train the dog to know when they get close they need to know what direction to go and not run thru the fence because if they do make it to the other side they cannot get back in without a correction.  Since I spend so much time training Sasha all she needed was to be beeped and she knew not to go any closer.   I even gardened in the front of my house and Sasha would stand/sit and wait for me at the invisible line (flags).  People would pass, kids were playing, and she would just sit and wait.  I once had a garage sale and only had Sasha at the time, she sat in the drive way the whole time, if people wanted to say Hi and pet her I told them they had to come to the other side of the flags.  She did so well on this but I believe it was only due to proper training.  Once I got Oliver I did the same with him but you have to wait unti the puppy is at least 6 months old.  I waited until Ollie was 7 months old and let me back up a bit.... when I got Oliver my BF installed a 6 ft. ceder fence on one side of the house and a chain link fence across the drive way so my whole back yard was completely fenced in then.  I still trained Oliver on the e-collar because I have a koi pond and both doodles have taken a dip in the pond :)   Once again I went thru the training process with Ollie and he passed with flying colors too.   After your are confident they know the boundries you can take down the flags.  Now that it has been 2+ years with the e-fence I let the doodles out in the totally fenced in back yard without the collars and they know the boundries.  They do not go by the pond and stay out of my garden.  I was always worried that they would get into the garden and maybe eat something that was not good for them or get into the pond which is only 24" deep.  I just want my doodles to be safe and have lots of room to run and have fun.   Also.. I never take the dogs off my property thru the back yard.  They only leave my property thru the front door.  You can confuse a dog by not having the e-collar on them and walking them over the "zone" and nothing happens then if you put the collar on them they will try to leave and get a correction.  So to keep things simple my doodles know that they can never leave the back yard via the drive way or gate.  The only way they can leave is thru the front door where they have their regular colar on and leashed up :)  I also have a remote e-collar for inside triaing as well, I never had to use it because it also has a "beep" button.  Sasha was a counter surfer and it was corrected in no time, all I had to do was just put the collar on her and give a beep and she was trained.  These are great tools and work with just beeps or vibrations ONLY IF YOU SPEND THE TIME TRAINING !!!  People have the wrong impression of them and think they cause harm and hurt the dog, believe me they do not, as I said earlier I tested it on myself.  This has worked for me and my dogs it may not work for all people and/or dogs.  I just can't stress enough that the training is the key factor. 

Sorry for the long response and good luck on what ever you decide to do.  Keeping my doodles safe is my #1 concern.

[F, Calla & Luca]

Do you have any evidence that a prong collar, used properly, can crush a trachea?

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

I've seen articles on crushed trachea with a choke collar vs prong.  The prong had much less incidence.   The choke collar however rated extremely high in incidence.   Again, prong is used as a gentle correction and not full force.Same for a choke for that matter.

But this article was not a research or scientific article.   So.... invalid.

[Denise & Hunter!!!]

My husband's boss and his wife trained search and rescue dogs and he had a dog that they used a prong collar on.  Something was wrong with the collar and it did crush the dogs trachea :-(

[Adina P]

Proper use is the key. 

[Denise & Hunter!!!]

We have an electric fence and it came with a remote for correction inside and outside.  Personally, we have been very happy with it.  I think you really have to make sure you get a good brand, I wouldn't buy one say from Wal Mart, we have a Innotek Contain & Train.  I know that Innotek does make just a training collar with the remote without having to put the fence in your yard.  When I use the correction remote I only have to make it beep, I never have to use any of the shock.  The beep is enough to get her attention and she stops what she is doing immediately.  I followed the directions exactly the way they said to train and we have not had any issues with it at all.  She did get shocked two times I believe when she was first being trained and she really did not act like it was horribly painful or anything, kind of just looked at us like "what the heck was that?!" no yelping at all.  

[Barbara B., Sasha & Oliver]

Denise... if you see my post above, I have had the exact same success you have had.  The key to the e-fence is training, I cannot stress that enough.

 

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

Clearly there are two camps here.

1.  Prong and/or shock collars when used properly and with consistent training are good tools for training. 

2. Prong and shock collars are the work of the devil and inhumane under any circumstances.

 

I fall (quite hard I would add) into category number 1.  The key to prong collars and/or shock collars is to find a good trainer.  Take lessons from that trainer, train your dog every day -at least two short sessions (5- 15 minutes) a day and never stop training.  Key word here is train as in teach, teacher, teaching.  It sounds from your description like you and Remington could use a good trainer and lots of training.  Please start now.  It is not too late.  A good dog trainer is going to be on the expensive side (usually) after all they are trying to make a living.  It will be worth every penny.

As an aside my doodles are 50 pounds each and always walk on the leash in prong collars.  Tigger, being much mellower never had a shock collar on, but I used one with Roo that he wore every minute from the time we woke up until we went to bed for over a year. ( i tried it on my hand at full strenghth and it was a little zingy, but certainly not incredibly painful) It helped me enormously with his training.  He was and is a bouncing, joyous ball of excitement and energy.  He is the definition of a zest for living!

Good trainers are not judgemental, have trained hundreds if not thousands of dogs and people and are worth their weight in gold.

 

[Denise & Sophie]

I just started using a prong collar on Sophie which was strongly recommended by our trainer. I have a totally different dog. She heals and no longer tries to pull or control me on leash. Honestly, I wasn't sure if I wanted to try it because I was afraid of hurting her. He explained to me that used correctly it would not hurt her and I have total faith in him as a trainer. This last week I pulled a muscle in my left shoulder/arm and I almost didn't go to class because I was afraid of trying to handle her. When I got there I told him and he looked at me puzzled and said maybe 3 weeks ago but not now. Prong collar or she knew I was hurting because she was an angel. )

[Barbara B., Sasha & Oliver]

In addition to my e-fence & collar, when walking Sasha & Oliver they would pull something awful.  Once I got the Gentle Leader there was no pulling what so ever.  Of course they did not like having it on their nose  but now they know that they cannot go for a walk without it.  There is no pulling and they walk right by my side and everyone gets to enjoy the walk :)  But once again there was a period of some training and putting the leader on with cookies and short periods of wearing it in the house and short periods of wearing it outside etc.  You just can't put it on and expect your dog to like it etc. 

[Heidi Magyar]

I know this is a topic from a while ago, but I am finding myself in the same position with my Remy & Roux. I am at a point that I have to do something. They are 8 months old and 60 lbs each. I have 2 professional dog trainers that each have different opinions about whether to use a prong or a shock collar. I have been told that the shock collars work very fast and like mentioned below have various settings and you (or the trainer) has to be proficient. Just wondering if anyone has had any more experience or stories?