Parvo and other general doodle questions

[Ward W]

Do any of you have experience with doodles and parvo?

My wife and I brought home our first puppy together on Tuesday, saw a definite change in energy level/willingness to eat on thursday and friday, and had a positive parvo test on Saturday. I feel terrible we did not take her to the vet on thurs or friday, but we figured (and were counseled by the breeder) that the decrease in energy was due to lack of food and that the lack of food was due to all the change in the puppies life (food, environment, etc). 

The vet is optimistic that we can keep her healthy and get through it, but I don't think either of us will have much confidence until she is home and healthy. We visited her today and she wagged her tail when we walked in, but feel asleep against our legs as soon as we sat down next to her. Looks like she still has a way to go. 

We have a few questions that I hope you can help us answer. We have not been able to speak with our vet (weekend), but the information from the 24hr clinic vet, my uncle (vet), and random google seraches leaves us a little confused. 

1. We're cleaning (washing with bleach) all of her toys, bedding, and crate. I don't plan on getting another puppy anytime soon and don't want to kill the entire backyard, would it be irresponsible not to bleach the yard?

2. We intended on enrolling her in local puppy classes and maybe some later training classes, will we have a hard time getting in once willow is back and recovered?

3. I don't want to spread any info on the breeder until I know if they will reimburse expenses. I don't have much visibility to the breeder world - how common is it for responsible and legitimate breeders to have parvo outbreaks? I'll never understand how the breeder didn't make me aware that they had a puppy from Willow's litter returned to them with confirmed (twice confirmed, at that) case of parvo. They claim they thought it was a false positive, but I am convinced she should have told me when I called to ask about willows symptoms (after the other puppy had been returned and tested twice). 

any other experience or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks for your help,

Ward

[Kaytlin and Cooper]

first of all, im sorry you and your pup are going through this. 

I have no experience with parvo - but I know some puppies die, others make a full recovery

I would expect the vet to pay all medical expenses. even if you exchanged your pup or got a refund and went with another breeder, the breeder would still have to pay vet bills (or sadly may euthanize the pup if they are not a good caring breeder). I agree with you that the breeder should have told you about the "suspected" case of parvo with the other pup, even before your pup started to have symptoms. Thats just what a good breeder should do. 

it sounds to me like maybe the breeder isnt a responsible breeder.... I would be concerned with what other issues the pup may have...do they do health testing on their Moms and Dads? Do they raise the pups in their home? Do they wait til the pups are at least 8 weeks old before sending them to homes?

I would seriously be considering returning the pup for a refund if the answers to the above are no... before you spend lots of money on vet bills and get too attached to puppy

[Ward W]

We saw akc papers on both mom and dad and health screens. Of course now I worry about forgery or that their vet is illegitimate. I was told the vet sent the returned parvo puppy home with her and told her to sell it again in a week

[Ward W]

Sorry left out a couple answers... We got her right at 8wks and were told the were raised at home though we were not allowed to see the home

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Ward, AKC papers can be purchased for any dog whose parents are both of the same breed. Pet store puppies have AKC papers. It really sounds like you found a very bad breeder, most likely a backyard breeder or possibly a puppy mill. Many of these types of outfits and people do the vetting themselves, and the pup may never have even seen a vet.

Puppies from reputable breeders very very rarely get parvo; it would be a nightmare for the breeder, as parvo is about as contagious it gets, and has wiped out whole kennels. Responsible and legitimate breeders do everything within their power to ensure they never have an outbreak, and almost always succeed. And I have never yet heard of one single puppy from a reputable breeder going home with parvo. This is NOT anyone who should be owning dogs, let alone breeding them.

Parvo is lethal. Most puppies with parvo do not survive. The creator and administrator of this website, Adina Pearson, has a doodle, Boca,  who she adopted from a rescue group. Of the 5 puppies in the litter, only two survived. But Boca was one of the lucky two who survived, and she is perfectly fine now. Once the disease is gone, it's gone. There won't be any issues with training classes or anything else.  

I don't know about disinfecting outdoors. This is a virus, not a parasite, but I don't know if it can live in grass, dirt, etc. I would ask the vet.

I hope your puppy makes a full recovery. I strongly suggest you get health insurance coverage for her ASAP, it won't cover this, but it will cover any illness that pops up later.  Any dog can get a serious illness or condition, and our doodles are not immune to that. With a puppy from a breeder like this, you can be sure that the parents did not have genetic health testing done, so the chances of there being health problems down the road are greater.

Just for your own information, and for the future, here is a very valuable article explaining what you should be looking for in a breeder before you buy a puppy: http://www.doodlekisses.com/notes/What_To_Look_for_In_a_Breeder

I hope your puppy recovers easily. Good luck.

[Kaytlin and Cooper]

oops supposed to say breeder pay expenses, not vet

[F, Calla & Luca]

To say parvo virus is man made is very controversial and unproven. Viruses appear and  mutate often, like Ebola and others. Some sites make this statement but there is no reliable source stating this that I could find in a search. If you have a reliable, scientific article please let us know.

[Ronna, Murphy & Wilson]

How long does it take to get "too attached" to a puppy?  I was totally in love and committed to my boys the second I saw them.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I have no personal experience with parvo, but I do know that this is very serious (often deadly) and contagious.  Our trainer helps out with our local rescue that pulls dogs from puppy mills in the south, and he has nursed a couple of them back to health from Parvo so they could eventually be adopted.  I know that he is very conscientious  about keeping them apart from his dogs and that everything that they encounter is sanitized, but I don't believe he has ever mentioned bleaching the yard.  This is a question for your vet.  It breaks my heart that this poor little puppy is having to go through this.  Another case of irresponsible breeding and dogs that suffer as a result.

[F, Calla & Luca]

Here is what appears to be a good article on parvo virus. The virus itself is apparently a very hardy organism and difficult to eliminate from the environment. I would think unvaccinated dogs should be excluded from your yard.

http://www.cpvh.com/2011/08/08/parvovirus-canine/

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I just found some info on the issue of eliminating it from the yard. It appears that you do have to bleach outdoors:

"The virus is extremely hardy and has been found to survive in feces and other organic material such as soil for over a year. It survives extremely cold and hot temperatures. The only household disinfectant that kills the virus is bleach.^[20]"

^and

"A dog that successfully recovers from CPV2 generally remains contagious for up to three weeks, but it is possible they may remain contagious for up to six. Ongoing infection risk is primarily from fecal contamination of the environment due to the virus's ability to survive many months in the environment. Neighbours and family members with dogs should be notified of infected animals so that they can ensure that their dogs are vaccinated or tested for immunity. The vaccine will take up to 2 weeks to reach effective levels of immunity; the contagious individual should remain in quarantine until other animals are protected.^[28"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canine_parvovirus#cite_note-Ettinger_1...

[Ronna, Murphy & Wilson]

I would just like to say I am very sorry that you and Willow are going through this. My prayers are with her and I am glad that you joined DK and hope that you will find the advice and support that you need here. 

[Doris, Knox & Flash]

Ditto from me, Ward!