Possessiveness

[Sandy]

Last night Toby brought a stick into the house with him, unbeknownst to us. My husband went and told him to drop it, and then went to get it from him as he HADN'T dropped it, and Toby growled at him! This is not like Toby at all. Usually if he has something (a sock, or whatever) I trade him a treat for it, and he's fine. What should I do as discipline in this kind of instance? Clearly that is NOT okay - the growling, I mean. Eventually we will have grandkids around here, or other kids over, and this cannot be happening. Obviously I don't want to hit Toby, which we didn't, but how do I react swiftly and firmly to show him that this will not be tolerated?

[Terri]

Hi,

I've been through this with my last dog. It is really important that you do NOT hit when this happens. You want your hands to always offer good things to your dog....always. Otherwise you may end up with fear agression which is so hard to train out of a dog. The other thing is...you want to make sure there are no medical issues that are causing him to act this way. When the possesive incident happens...lower your voice, try to make him drop it, and then time out (crate, kitchen, another room....anywhere away from attention) He doesn't get the "thing" back AT ALL.


I had a lot of success with the "Nothing in Life is Free" plan. I'm going to try to attach it to this at the end...don't know if that will work or not. Basically it means that you are teaching the dog that everything and anything they want or need comes from you with permission and payment of some kind. By asking them to giveyou something for everything, you are playing into the pack mentality of being the alpha...the humans are the leaders and they have to okay everything with you. It puts them in a very submissive position. You don't have to go crazy with it. If you use it to an extreme its very isolating to your dog.....that would be for a VERY big problem. When our dog got possessive with anything we would go into boot camp mode for about a week. So this is how it looked at our house: dog was not allowed in our "den" (bedroom) or on any furniture. If the dog was following us around the house she could not enter a room or go up the stairs before us--the leader goes everywhere first. Sit stay while we walked through the door or up the stairs, then we'd call her. When we gave her her food we'd always make sure she was watching, and we'd "take a bite" (not really...just pretend) before putting the bowl down. And the last thing and most important was payment for everything. "Wanna go outside? Sit..give paw....now you can go" "Wanna belly rub? Sit...down....now you can have it" "Wanna go for a walk? Sit....stay....down.....now we'll go." They pay with a command.
Throughout all of this....you should interact and praise your dog for everything you can....you want to be the leader, but the leader they love and trust. Its important that all humans stick to this plan...in our case it was our son she was possessive around, so he had to be the leader for sure. If the behavior happens during boot camp mode...go back to lowering voice, NO, time out, remove the "thing".

We would do this for about a week or so, then gradually ease off. If possessive behaviors came back....back to boot camp mode for a few days.

I'm sure someone will disagree with this method, but possesiveness is about dominance usually--where they feel they fall on the ladder of your family. IN OUR CASE (not everyones) showing her that all the humans were higher on the hierarchy helped tremendously.

Here's the website with the detailed "NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE": http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/nilif.pdf


Good luck....

[Adina P]

Google "resource guarding."
Positive trainers say to NOT punish growling because growling is a warning and you don't want to have your dog skip the warning and bite. Instead work on "drop it" some more gradually using better and better high value items with amazing treats as reward. Giving the item back now and then so the dog knows you're not always there to ruin its fun.

Other trainers might correct that behavior in various ways such as a LOUD FIRM "KNOCK IT OFF" or "NO!" and take the dog and isolate it without the item.

I vacillate between the two depending on the circumstance. But I didn't teach 'drop it' with treats so my dogs don't expect anything from drop it...except if they don't drop it I make it happen. We've had no resource guarding except between themselves and I don't allow it.

[Kim]

I asked this same question with my dog. She still growls at us, but apparently that is a good thing because she is telling us that she doesn't like what we are doing. I don't like it either - but that is the answer I got. She is warning and not just reacting (which is a good thing). I was also given the advice of trading treats for whatever the dog has - and that does work for us.

[Adina P]

I am very conflicted over this (and this has nothing to do with you Kim...as I've read this in many places) because while I get that it's 'gentle' and the goal is to avoid making the dog feel like you're 'taking' things from it...it still rings of bribery to me and frankly as my dogs' superior I think I have the RIGHT to take things from them. I wouldn't take things from a strange dog with whom I have no relationship or history...I certainly don't want a fight or a bite. But to allow my dog to 'warn' me rubs me wrong. Why does my dog have a right to 'warn' me about things that *I* own and he is privileged to use?

Perhaps the way I've understood it these past 2-3 years is a misunderstanding of the technique, but it just seems like caving in to a dog that is ultimately being bratty and rude and hasn't yet figured out their place in the household. Now, please nobody take this to mean dominance/alpha stuff. I really don't care about those labels much (though they may have their place at times...I don't believe training has to do with that per se).

And while I know this analogy is imperfect... how many of you would think it is OK for your 7 year old child to 'warn' you?

Mom: Okay, Tommy, time to put your toys away and go to bed...
Tommy: I'm warning you mom! Come any closer and I'll start kicking and screaming cuz I'm still playing!
Mom: See this crisp $5 bill? It can be yours if you put your toys away and let me tuck in you in bed...
Tommy: Oh boy! Now we're talking mom!


I know...the discipline and training of children is not the same and I don't treat my dogs just like I would my kids and wouldn't treat my kids as I do my dogs. But there are some similar underlying themes, I think.

I suppose, depending on the dog and the depth of the resource guarding problem...a few bribes might make it go away. BUT...it seems the treat as the cue to drop it MUST be stopped really soon AND the dog worked with outside the heat of the moment AND the treat must graduate to 'surprise reward' rather than something the dog is shown as you say "drop it." The flashing of the treat, if used, seems like it should be a starting point and not the status quo or the goal. This is why clicker training is my favorite form of positive training...done correctly it's not bribery and the treat is NOT part of the command.

Because at that point it really is just bribery and that's not the relationship I would want with my dog.

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

I totally agree with Adina!

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

I agree with you Adina. As a teacher, I am alpha to my students and I don't tolerate whining. I tell the "whiners" when they first start it and then I ALWAYS give negative "rewards." My students quit whining in my class with very few lapses. I also am alpha with the dogs in the things I really care about - they know and don't push. This includes growling at people. I do believe in swats with kids and dogs (not beatings mind you), and a major infraction like growling at humans or running out into the street earns a swat, firm No's and temporary banishment. Do my dogs mind? For those things that are at my bottom line, they do. Other stuff, not so much. Maybe I am just lucky.

[Kim]

LOL, the analogy was funny. I totally agree with you. I said I didn't like the growling but that was the answer I got. We started trading treats for whatever we were needing to get away from her. She now allows ME to take things from her (without treats), but she still has her bratty moments with my Husband and our Son. It HAS gotten much better, and we do still work on it (obviously me more than them)!

[Edith & "Lucy"]

I am experiencing the same behavior with Lucy. She is recource guarding, growled at first when she started this behavior and now sometimes just raises her lip and gets the "bitty face" my 5 1/2 yr. old calls it. We have had a lot of problems with my younger daughter being nipped when Lucy didn't want to be touched.

Growling is a good thing.

The behaviorist taught us a new command LEAVE IT. That seems to work for a lot of things in our case. Just really be the ALPHA and yes do not let her on furniture or sleeping in beds. A bad situation occurs, she gets a timeout in her crate.

Lucy is only 10 month old. I am starting a class with her to keep her occupied and not bored. The walks really help too.

[Stella]

He is probably testing you guys. He is in the final throes of teenage-hood and is just checking (hopefully, for one last time!!) who is really in charge! We haven't had this situation, except between the two dogs and that is a different story, so I can't really offer too much advice. Our trainer teaches the exchange for a treat method, but I agree with Adina that you shouldn't always have to reward for giving something up to you. With that technique the reward always has to be higher value than the thing they have, and this isn't always easy.

I would probably work a lot on "leave it", "take it", and 'drop it' with regular items - treats, toys etc to really reinforce your commands. As he brought the stick home with him, he obviously valued it very highly and might not have given it up, even for a treat, if he consistently doesn't respond to "drop it".

How did you get the stick off him, and what did you do?

I'm not sure about removing the object they are being possessive of forever, that way I think they learn to guard even more as they know if they give it up they are never going to see it again. We keep all toys (except for chew toys) in a bin that they don't have access too. That way we have control over 'fun' items and how long they have them for. They know where the toys are and that they will get them to play with again in the future. We also worked A LOT on "leave it" with their meals, we can even interrupt them mid-meal and remove the bowl without any issues (I always put something good in it with their meal before giving it back, so they know it will always come back, and come back better!!).

If you have to take the item from him and/ or he growls I would go with a stern "no", and send him to his crate for a time-out. If you ask for a drop it and he does it, maybe you could reward with a throw of a ball to retrieve or whatever he likes to do for fun, that way you can give a real-life reward rather than food?

These are just my ideas! Hope that you can get this sorted out. Toby is usually pretty submissive, so I am suprised that he did this to you guys.

[Sandy]

Thanks for all the advice. John gave him a stern "no", and we ushered him outside by the collar. He was not allowed in until he dropped the stick. He stood at the door with it in his mouth, and we just kept telling him to drop it until he did. When he came in he was very sheepish, and stayed that way for the rest of the night.

We don't always exchange for a treat, but I know that always works. Toby is quite food motivated, and cheese is always higher value than what he has.

[Stella]

It sounds like you did the right thing. He learnt that he couldn't be with you until he did as he was told. A sheepish Toby (!!), probably quite cute if it wasn't for the fact that growling atyou guys had led to him being that way.

I guess I was thinking that if he had a marrowbone or other such tasty high value food item, would he give it up for another food item? But, as you say, cheese is pretty much the winner in all situations!!

[Kyoko]

Charlie does resource guarding as well. But not towards us, towards other dogs....
She starts to grow at them if they try to drink out of same bowl, chase after the same toys, etc.....
Does not seem friendly, you know?