Labradoodle & Goldendoodle Forum
Potential Health Problems in Doodles: Why Choosing a Breeder Carefully is Critical.
I wrote this as a blog early in the beginning of doodle kisses. But with so many new members looking for labradoodle and goldendoodle puppies and trying to choose a breeder... I thought it was good information to bring up again. While there are many factors to consider when choosing a breeder, health is a pretty big deal when it comes to the dog that we love.
Hybrid Vigor?
Some of you may have read claims that mixed breed dogs are "healthier" than pure breeds because of "hybrid vigor" that results when two different breeds (and their greater genetic variance) are combined. However, I've seen this "hybrid vigor" idea abused by those who want freedom to throw any breeds together and call it "healthier." The truth is that any potential "hybrid vigor" is merely a potential benefit, not a guaranteed benefit of buying/adopting a mixed breed dog.
As many of you know, many diseases and health problems are hereditary. That means it doesn't matter WHAT the breed or mix is...if one or both parents carries a genetic problem that can be passed down, the offspring may also end up either carrying that disease in their genes or actually developing that disease.
Because of this possibility it is vitally important to do your homework before choosing a breeder. If you are in the market for a labradoodle or goldendoodle (or any other breed or mix) study the individual breeds in the mix and find out what their health weaknesses are. Then...make certain that the breeder you choose tests for the testable diseases common in those breeds and ask to see copies of those test results. Don't take anyone's word for it.
It's not enough that two breeding dogs seem to be healthy and so far have been the picture of health. It's not enough that a breeding dog goes to the vet every year and gets a stamp of "health" from the vet. Many diseases and genetic predispositions are not visible to the naked eye and without specific health testing there's no way to know if there is a problem. I will also grant that health testing on its own will not guarantee that a puppy will have excellent health all of its life, but it sure increases the chances!
So what are common hereditary diseases in labs, goldens and poodles & the tests needed to screen for those problems?
* Canine Hip Dysplasia (CHD) is either a malformation of the hip joint or looseness of the hip joint. Either way it can be a pretty debilitating issue causing pain and difficulty walking/playing/etc and it is common in all three breeds. However, this is a multi-factorial disease--meaning it's not caused just by one thing or one genetic defect and the result isn't just one problem. Right now there are two main tests a good breeder may use to determine their dogs' hip quality: The most common test is an x-ray done through the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals so the test is often referred to as OFA. It's not the OFA that does the actual test, they just read the results and issue a rating/clearance. The test rates the formation of the hips. Hips that are rated Fair, Good, or Excellent are considered "passing."
The other test for hips was created by University of Pennsylvania and is called the PennHIP -- PennHip does not give a "clearance" but grades the dog's likelihood of developing CHD using a distraction index (DI) that measures hip tightness or looseness. Scores received from PennHip are numbers under 1 such as 0.55 or 0.70, etc. This grading shows how a dog's hips compare with others in their breed. A score like 0.50 shows that a dog's hips are at the 50% percentile or equal to about the "average" hips for that breed. The higher numbers mean a lower percentile. The lower the number, the higher the percentile which means tighter hips (good).
It is very important that you choose a breeder that does either or both of these hip tests (especially for medium and standard size doodles) to minimize the chances that your pup will develop CHD. But do keep in mind that although starting with healthy hips will reduce your risk of problems, it won't guarantee it.
* Elbow Dysplasia, Patellar Luxation, and Legg-Calve-Perthes Disease are also conditions that OFA deals with and many breeders test for. However, I'll leave the reading on this up to you--info available on the OFA site.
* Eye disorders Each breed has the potential to carry/have various eye disorders. I won't go into each one, but to minimize your risk look for a breeder that does CERF testing and/or PRA testing. CERF stands for Canine Eye Registration Foundation. A certified ophthalmologist must examine a dog's eyes for this test (not just any vet). PRA stands for Progressive Retinal Atrophy and is a genetic disease of the retina which eventually causes blindness. A CERF exam can see evidence of PRA, as well as other eye problems and must be completed annually. But the PRA test is a DNA test to ensure that a dog is free of the gene so that it does not get passed on. PRA carriers can be bred with non-carriers because no puppies will get the disease, but some will be carriers so all puppies from such a litter should be spayed/neutered before they go to new homes so they are never bred.
* Canine Von Willebrands disease also known as vWD is a bleeding disorder similar to hemophilia in humans and is more common in poodles than in labs or goldens...but since a doodle is part poodle it's an important test to ask about when choosing a breeder. The tests most breeders use is a DNA test that shows if a dog is either affected or a carrier or clear of the disease. A carrier should ONLY be bred to a non-carrier and the puppies of this litter would be best spayed/neutered before being sent to new homes to prevent the gene from being passed on if the new owners decide to breed without testing. An affected dog would/should never be bred.
The list of testing above is not exhaustive nor does it prove a breeder's quality. However, it's a place to start and from there your screening of a breeder should include telephone and email conversations as well as a visit to the premises when possible (breeders also need to be able to keep their breeding grounds safe and sanitary for their puppies and allowing daily visitors is not always safe). Look for a good health guarantee (min of 2 years as many conditions take that long to show up) and read the health guarantee contract as if you already have bought the pup and it's now a year old. If your 1 year old develops hip dysplasia...would you be happy if the contract required you to return this dog you love? Or would you want some other kind of compensation?
As you can now see, the health of a puppy is not determined merely by being the offspring of two different breeds, but by being the offspring of two healthy dogs (regardless of breed) with a good background, bred by a breeder who stays up to date on health issues of the breeds in question. These are just my thoughts, I welcome discussion if I got any facts wrong. Always do your own homework/research before choosing a breeder.
Hybrid Vigor?
Some of you may have read claims that mixed breed dogs are "healthier" than pure breeds because of "hybrid vigor" that results when two different breeds (and their greater genetic variance) are combined. However, I've seen this "hybrid vigor" idea abused by those who want freedom to throw any breeds together and call it "healthier." The truth is that any potential "hybrid vigor" is merely a potential benefit, not a guaranteed benefit of buying/adopting a mixed breed dog.
As many of you know, many diseases and health problems are hereditary. That means it doesn't matter WHAT the breed or mix is...if one or both parents carries a genetic problem that can be passed down, the offspring may also end up either carrying that disease in their genes or actually developing that disease.
Because of this possibility it is vitally important to do your homework before choosing a breeder. If you are in the market for a labradoodle or goldendoodle (or any other breed or mix) study the individual breeds in the mix and find out what their health weaknesses are. Then...make certain that the breeder you choose tests for the testable diseases common in those breeds and ask to see copies of those test results. Don't take anyone's word for it.
It's not enough that two breeding dogs seem to be healthy and so far have been the picture of health. It's not enough that a breeding dog goes to the vet every year and gets a stamp of "health" from the vet. Many diseases and genetic predispositions are not visible to the naked eye and without specific health testing there's no way to know if there is a problem. I will also grant that health testing on its own will not guarantee that a puppy will have excellent health all of its life, but it sure increases the chances!
So what are common hereditary diseases in labs, goldens and poodles & the tests needed to screen for those problems?
* Canine Hip Dysplasia (CHD) is either a malformation of the hip joint or looseness of the hip joint. Either way it can be a pretty debilitating issue causing pain and difficulty walking/playing/etc and it is common in all three breeds. However, this is a multi-factorial disease--meaning it's not caused just by one thing or one genetic defect and the result isn't just one problem. Right now there are two main tests a good breeder may use to determine their dogs' hip quality: The most common test is an x-ray done through the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals so the test is often referred to as OFA. It's not the OFA that does the actual test, they just read the results and issue a rating/clearance. The test rates the formation of the hips. Hips that are rated Fair, Good, or Excellent are considered "passing."
The other test for hips was created by University of Pennsylvania and is called the PennHIP -- PennHip does not give a "clearance" but grades the dog's likelihood of developing CHD using a distraction index (DI) that measures hip tightness or looseness. Scores received from PennHip are numbers under 1 such as 0.55 or 0.70, etc. This grading shows how a dog's hips compare with others in their breed. A score like 0.50 shows that a dog's hips are at the 50% percentile or equal to about the "average" hips for that breed. The higher numbers mean a lower percentile. The lower the number, the higher the percentile which means tighter hips (good).
It is very important that you choose a breeder that does either or both of these hip tests (especially for medium and standard size doodles) to minimize the chances that your pup will develop CHD. But do keep in mind that although starting with healthy hips will reduce your risk of problems, it won't guarantee it.
* Elbow Dysplasia, Patellar Luxation, and Legg-Calve-Perthes Disease are also conditions that OFA deals with and many breeders test for. However, I'll leave the reading on this up to you--info available on the OFA site.
* Eye disorders Each breed has the potential to carry/have various eye disorders. I won't go into each one, but to minimize your risk look for a breeder that does CERF testing and/or PRA testing. CERF stands for Canine Eye Registration Foundation. A certified ophthalmologist must examine a dog's eyes for this test (not just any vet). PRA stands for Progressive Retinal Atrophy and is a genetic disease of the retina which eventually causes blindness. A CERF exam can see evidence of PRA, as well as other eye problems and must be completed annually. But the PRA test is a DNA test to ensure that a dog is free of the gene so that it does not get passed on. PRA carriers can be bred with non-carriers because no puppies will get the disease, but some will be carriers so all puppies from such a litter should be spayed/neutered before they go to new homes so they are never bred.
* Canine Von Willebrands disease also known as vWD is a bleeding disorder similar to hemophilia in humans and is more common in poodles than in labs or goldens...but since a doodle is part poodle it's an important test to ask about when choosing a breeder. The tests most breeders use is a DNA test that shows if a dog is either affected or a carrier or clear of the disease. A carrier should ONLY be bred to a non-carrier and the puppies of this litter would be best spayed/neutered before being sent to new homes to prevent the gene from being passed on if the new owners decide to breed without testing. An affected dog would/should never be bred.
The list of testing above is not exhaustive nor does it prove a breeder's quality. However, it's a place to start and from there your screening of a breeder should include telephone and email conversations as well as a visit to the premises when possible (breeders also need to be able to keep their breeding grounds safe and sanitary for their puppies and allowing daily visitors is not always safe). Look for a good health guarantee (min of 2 years as many conditions take that long to show up) and read the health guarantee contract as if you already have bought the pup and it's now a year old. If your 1 year old develops hip dysplasia...would you be happy if the contract required you to return this dog you love? Or would you want some other kind of compensation?
As you can now see, the health of a puppy is not determined merely by being the offspring of two different breeds, but by being the offspring of two healthy dogs (regardless of breed) with a good background, bred by a breeder who stays up to date on health issues of the breeds in question. These are just my thoughts, I welcome discussion if I got any facts wrong. Always do your own homework/research before choosing a breeder.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jacquie Yorke (DRC) on
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Great idea to re-post this Adina!.......
Can I add Canine Idiopathic Epilepsy? It is another disease that effects Poodles.....
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Permalink Reply by Adina P on
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sure! I imagine there is no test for this ... but a breeder should know the background of the dogs being bred and any history of epilepsy. Realistically, every breed had something in its background and we can't rule out every disease or guarantee that any puppy from any breeding will live to 17 years old without a hitch. But a breeder who aims to reduce genetic disease through his or her breeding choices is somebody a potential buyer should want to work with! otherwise, just rescue a doodle!
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Permalink Reply by Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle on
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Yes, to me, this is one of the key things about choosing a breeder: "a breeder should know the background of the dogs being bred...". From as far back as I can remember, you were always told to ask to see the sire & dam of any puppy you were considering buying. Of course, I realize that often, the sire is not owned by the breeder, and many times people do not go to the puppy's home; in cases where the dog is being shipped, it wouldn't be practical. But I think it's important to have some knowledge of the breeder, to know something about them, maybe have met other dogs they've bred, and ask lots and lots of opinions from others, not just to see a website, talk on the phone or through e-mails, etc., and get a puppy from an entirely unknown source. Some proof of testing of the parents (on paper) would at least reassure you that this person is practicing a modicum of responsibility.
In light of what I've recently found out about genetic illnesses, (Jack's, of course), if I were buying a puppy now, I would want tangible proof of the age of the sire & dam at the time of the breeding. A lot of genetic illnesses don't show up until well past puppyhood, and I know there are unscrupulous breeders out there who are breeding dogs that are under a year old.
Thank you for bringing this information to people's attention, Adina, it is SO important!
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Permalink Reply by Sandy on
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I just heard the term "hybrid vigor" from my vet this week. I had Toby in to get his leg checked, and she also weighed him. He's 35.2 pounds at 4 1/2 months. I was told he'd top out around 60 from the breeder (Mom was 44, Dad was 60). The vet just laughed and said "hybrid vigor". In other words, he will likely outgrow both parents. That's fine - we love him. As long as he's a well behaved big dog, we'll be fine. :)
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Permalink Reply by Noble Vestal Labradoodles on
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Don't forget Thyroid issues!
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Yes, another important health issue...this is just regular thyroid checks...right?
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Permalink Reply by 2zw8n9vphfrc6 on
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:( We have been wondering if doodle boy could have early hip/leg issues. It was noted from a former trainer and even some that see him especially the way he walks and runs. He also about scuffs his feet. Does anyone notice this with their doodle?
Michele
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Permalink Reply by Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie on
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We got our Springer from first time breeders wanting to get into the business and they didn't have their dog checked. Our Springer does have hip problems that were diagnosed early, so we learned what we should have done. However, when we got our doodle we just had oral confirmation of health certs. that were to be brought when we picked him up. She forgot (?) to give us any papers when we picked him up and when we got our mail all there was was a family tree. When I e-mailed her asking for a copy of the health cert., she was offended so I backed off. I have learned so much on this site that I wish I had known earlier. We aren't going to return Ned any more than we would have returned our loving Springer, BUT I won't get another dog without paper in my hand showing healthy parents. Money isn't everything, but how stupid of us to pay lots of money for specific dogs without getting health confirmations. P.S. our rescue lab/australian shepherd mix came without any health stuff and has been the healthiest dog - aren't we lucky there!?
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Just want to be sure as many members read this as possible...it's important info!
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Glad you found it helpful! Age is one of those odd things. A LOT of health testing can be done quite early...even hips can be cleared by PennHIP by 16 weeks. And OFA no longer (or soon will no longer) require a dog to be 2 years old to issue a clearance because research shows that earlier hip scores are predictive and useful. So many breeders do these tests early to rule in/out whether a dog CAN be a healthy breeding prospect. Yet, there are things that don't show up right away and for that reason...it is probably wise to be patient before breeding.
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Permalink Reply by Rae on
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Our Bella Pearl has Addison's Disease - however, there is no DNA testing for it. Our breeder was very upset and has been extremely supportive. We saw all the test results of both parents, met/saw both parents, and even saw test results of grandparents. Addison's is a genetic disease and we think it came from one of the standard poodles back a few generations. None of the other pups from Bella's parents have shown any signs. We only found out about it when she had another medical problem that put her system under too much stress and she went into Addison Crisis. She's just fine now with the proper life long medication. She's worth every penny it's costing us.
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Permalink Reply by Cindy and Olive (Ollie) on
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Great thread!
I'd like to add that after reading the health warranty, in particular buyers may want to take note of any "exclusions" listed on the warranty!! Then ask questions to try to ensure your pup's parents have not ever bred pups with these exclusionary issues before...
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