Puppy Mills and BYB

[Lorraine Bromley]

The conversations of this week have been on my mind alot. I am also having some personal issues with my son and his girlfriend are getting the second great dane puppy. The first is one year old now and they are great parents. We don't agree with them getting the second puppy. We didn't agree with them getting either dog. I can't do anything about it. THe first one they compromised with us to buy atleast a puppy that had a health guarantee and the parents were genetically tested. This one has papers on the parents and health checks as well but is a first time breeder and is not registering the litter. They found it on Kijji. They argue that Kijji is not a bad place to get anything. These are back yard breeders. The price reflects that. I don't think that the dogs would qualify for CKC as they have faults as far as I can figure out. I don't know much about pure breds and how they are qualified and what happens when they don't qualify to their standards. I do know that I have used just about every argument known to man and all the information I have learned from DK to change their minds. It is not happening.

There have been allegations that the breeder that I got Neely from is a puppymill. I really don't think that they are but they are not a home breeder they are a kennel. I have been there and also have talked to and still use the same vet. The genetic testing is great as well. I do think that I would have liked to have the information about that breeder prior to purchase. I was not on doodlekisses at that time. I did not get the info from the DK though. I found one complaint on the internet. Far from a deluge of information.

Recently there have been two large rescues from known puppy mills in my area. Our local OSPCA has had quite a few of these dogs to rehabilitate, and some are now ready for and have been adopted. 

What bothers me is that even though these people have had their dogs taken away and they are a known puppy mill and it has been in the paper no NAMES have been released. WHY??? I want to know!

If the puppy mill has had legal ramifications and has been investigated by animal welfare people and found guilty why not publish their names? I think it would stop alot of these people starting up new set ups with different kennel names if we knew THEIR names. If the KENNEL name was released then that information would be available to people looking for their new pets so they could avoid them no MATTER the COST.

I understand that we can't have people just giving their opinion in public or defaming the people who may not be puppy mills but have allegations against them. It is very easy for someone to put a complaint out there for reasons that may not have anything to do with the way reality is. A small business can be damaged greatly by one customer who could just have been the customer from H---!

What I would like to see happen is to bring the puppy mill people with great web sites or that ship only out into the public and expose them. I think that if there have been legal and or animal welfare people come in and shut you down it should be information we are not afraid to share. I was just on the CKC website and there is a breeder there that is on notice for something and her name and her kennel name are out there for all to see. It doesn't go into detail, only states the infraction type so It would be up to each individual to look into that themselves before dealing with her. Her website doesn't state she is on notice though. We don't have an organization that alerts us to possible issues. We are it. Word of mouth. As long as the word out of your mouth can be backed up by facts presented as legally correct!

It seemed to me (I didn't check as I am not familiar with that area) that the discussion about the possible puppymill had many documents and legal input that it was indeed a puppymill. It would not have gotten heated at all if the person that was looking for her sibling pups would have said, thank you for the information and continued to ask for sibling info. It would have settled us down to realize she wasn't going to advocate for her breeder. Her responses left us no choice but to worry that she would indeed support a known puppymill. And with newbies here expecting support for purchasing their forever friend I would want them to know and it had to be said.

It seems the information on puppymills that have been convicted is not available? I found out in depth about a Canadian Breeder that had several convictions and kept opening under different names. That was a few years ago. That is the only one that I have come across, not that I am looking that hard. I already have Neely so I haven't been searching as much. If the information is out there on convicted or comfiscated puppy mills. Where can we share it?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Take a look at Pijac's opposition statement to a Glendale CA proposed ordinance to prohibit the sale of animals in pet stores; especially take note of the denial & skirting around the issue of pet store dogs coming from puppy mills. :

 

http://www.pijac.org/_documents/ca_-_glendale_pet_sale_ban.pdf

 

[Lorraine Bromley]

THIS IS AN EMAIL THAT I SENT TO MY LOCAL OSPCA AND ITS REPLY ON THIS SUBJECT

It was recently talked about that our OSPCA has been involved with the rescue of many puppy mill dogs. I am concerned that the person and or kennel names are not released to the community. If there has been action taken, why shouldn’t these people be outed? So many will try to continue to breed and if there names were posted in the local area it would decrease the chances of people using them. What would be great would be a listing by Province of names of people and Kennel names so that in a persons search for a specific breeder they could access this information and steer clear. I was also noticing that the Perth County SPCA is not listed on pet finder for access of adoption for our shelter animals. This is a very popular site for people looking at rescuing.

It is also well known that PET stores are using puppy mill dogs and brokers. Is there any action being taken to stop this practice? Many local areas are banning the sale of pets at pet stores. Is that something our area can do? Or at least follow the source of their stock to subject them to the scrutiny that kennels should have especially if there is a concern it is a puppy mill.

Is there any way these things can be done? I am very naive about rescue but would like to see improvements where possible.

Thanks in advance for replying

Lorraine 

Lorraine,

Thank you so much for your e-mail. We stand for Prevention of Cruelty to animals. When we remove dogs from a suspected puppy mill we pursue charges. While the trial is ongoing we can not release the names of the people in question. This is a breach of confidentiality as well it may jeopardize the case and any evidence we have. I don't doubt that when the charges have been laid for the most recent puppy mill that the persons in question will be released to the public. As far as buying dogs from kennels, "rescues", and breeders, we tell everyone to do as MUCH research as possible. Many "rescues" claim to be rescues but all they do is remove dogs from unfavourable breeders and the places are never shut down. As far as pet stores some do get their dogs from puppy mills but if we have no proof of where they get their animals we can't shut them down. And as long as the pet stores abide by local by-laws then they are within their rights. once again, if someone is interested in buying from a pet store we suggest trying to find out as much information about the parents as possible. CKC registered breeders must go through a very thorough inspection yearly and must abide by very strict laws and the majority of the time the parents and sometimes even grandparents are on site so the buyer knows where the dog came from.

Ultimately, as long as someone who is selling dogs is abiding by the local bylaws and provincial regulations, they can sell the dogs if they want to. It's really up to the buyer to do their research to ensure the breeder is reputable. Even calling their local OSPCA or Humane Society to see if they have any information on any local breeders.

Thank you so much for your concerns. If you have any further questions or comments please e-mail or call us anytime.

Perth County OSPCA

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

1. "While the trial is ongoing we can not release the names of the people in question. This is a breach of confidentiality as well it may jeopardize the case and any evidence we have. I don't doubt that when the charges have been laid for the most recent puppy mill that the persons in question will be released to the public.  "

That's what I thought, and this makes sense to me.

2. "As far as pet stores some do get their dogs from puppy mills but if we have no proof of where they get their animals we can't shut them down"

Here in Illinois, a law has been passed that forces the pet stores to make public the source of the animals. They must make paperwork available to anyone who asks, showing the name and location of the breeder and/or kennel. This alone would not tell a potential buyer what kind of place it is, but it would give them  the information they need to research the place. It may be possible to try to get such laws passed in your area, if they are not already in place.

3. "And as long as the pet stores abide by local by-laws then they are within their rights"

In many areas here in the U.S., people have tried to get laws passed concerning the care the pet store puppies receive. Among the many things we would like to see is a law that the puppies must be allowed outdoors for a specified period each day, usually something like 20 minutes. PIJAC has fought tooth and nail against any laws which include this kind of requirement, and it's easy to see why. Since most of these places are located in shopping malls, getting the pups outdoors to an area where they could walk and run around would be almost impossible, and even in cases where the store has direct access to the outdoors, it's basically an alley or parking lot. Plus, you need employees to get them out there and supervise them closely.

I have no sympathy for the store owners, but I doubt the law will ever be passed. All they have to do is talk about people going out of business, people losing their jobs, and the lost revenue to the town if these kind of hardships are placed on business owners, and it's very effective to keep the laws from being passed.

Imagine these puppies who have never set foot on the ground outdoors from the day they are born until you bring them home. No wonder people have trouble with housebreaking. I wonder if those who buy puppies in pet stores ever even think about that.

A better idea are laws that forbid the selling of puppies in retail stores, period. Many towns have just such laws in place. each of us should try to get this kind of law passed in our own areas.

4."CKC registered breeders must go through a very thorough inspection yearly and must abide by very strict laws "

It's well known that the agencies who conduct these inspections are understaffed and overburdened, and the "inspections" take place rarely if at all. Just like the caseworkers from the human social service agencies who are supposed to be checking on children in the foster care system. It seems like every other week there is some tragedy in the paper about an abusive foster home, and then it comes out that the caseworker was overwhelmed with too many cases and not enough time or resources, so the home visits never took place and the paperwork saying the home is fine was falsified. It's the same way with the inspections of commercial breeding facilities, at least here in the U.S. :(

 

[Lorraine Bromley]

I could go on and on about the Children's Aide Society as well. There is no changing anything when it comes to them. The comparison to trying to deal with puppies is similar. It is disheartening to think that if we can't change the Children s protection how in the hell will we be able to change laws for animals! My brain hurts, gotta go nap!