Puppy Mills and BYB

[Lorraine Bromley]

The conversations of this week have been on my mind alot. I am also having some personal issues with my son and his girlfriend are getting the second great dane puppy. The first is one year old now and they are great parents. We don't agree with them getting the second puppy. We didn't agree with them getting either dog. I can't do anything about it. THe first one they compromised with us to buy atleast a puppy that had a health guarantee and the parents were genetically tested. This one has papers on the parents and health checks as well but is a first time breeder and is not registering the litter. They found it on Kijji. They argue that Kijji is not a bad place to get anything. These are back yard breeders. The price reflects that. I don't think that the dogs would qualify for CKC as they have faults as far as I can figure out. I don't know much about pure breds and how they are qualified and what happens when they don't qualify to their standards. I do know that I have used just about every argument known to man and all the information I have learned from DK to change their minds. It is not happening.

There have been allegations that the breeder that I got Neely from is a puppymill. I really don't think that they are but they are not a home breeder they are a kennel. I have been there and also have talked to and still use the same vet. The genetic testing is great as well. I do think that I would have liked to have the information about that breeder prior to purchase. I was not on doodlekisses at that time. I did not get the info from the DK though. I found one complaint on the internet. Far from a deluge of information.

Recently there have been two large rescues from known puppy mills in my area. Our local OSPCA has had quite a few of these dogs to rehabilitate, and some are now ready for and have been adopted. 

What bothers me is that even though these people have had their dogs taken away and they are a known puppy mill and it has been in the paper no NAMES have been released. WHY??? I want to know!

If the puppy mill has had legal ramifications and has been investigated by animal welfare people and found guilty why not publish their names? I think it would stop alot of these people starting up new set ups with different kennel names if we knew THEIR names. If the KENNEL name was released then that information would be available to people looking for their new pets so they could avoid them no MATTER the COST.

I understand that we can't have people just giving their opinion in public or defaming the people who may not be puppy mills but have allegations against them. It is very easy for someone to put a complaint out there for reasons that may not have anything to do with the way reality is. A small business can be damaged greatly by one customer who could just have been the customer from H---!

What I would like to see happen is to bring the puppy mill people with great web sites or that ship only out into the public and expose them. I think that if there have been legal and or animal welfare people come in and shut you down it should be information we are not afraid to share. I was just on the CKC website and there is a breeder there that is on notice for something and her name and her kennel name are out there for all to see. It doesn't go into detail, only states the infraction type so It would be up to each individual to look into that themselves before dealing with her. Her website doesn't state she is on notice though. We don't have an organization that alerts us to possible issues. We are it. Word of mouth. As long as the word out of your mouth can be backed up by facts presented as legally correct!

It seemed to me (I didn't check as I am not familiar with that area) that the discussion about the possible puppymill had many documents and legal input that it was indeed a puppymill. It would not have gotten heated at all if the person that was looking for her sibling pups would have said, thank you for the information and continued to ask for sibling info. It would have settled us down to realize she wasn't going to advocate for her breeder. Her responses left us no choice but to worry that she would indeed support a known puppymill. And with newbies here expecting support for purchasing their forever friend I would want them to know and it had to be said.

It seems the information on puppymills that have been convicted is not available? I found out in depth about a Canadian Breeder that had several convictions and kept opening under different names. That was a few years ago. That is the only one that I have come across, not that I am looking that hard. I already have Neely so I haven't been searching as much. If the information is out there on convicted or comfiscated puppy mills. Where can we share it?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Isn't it sickening that you even have to research a rescue to know that it's legitimate????

Here, there are websites like Guidestar, that list legitimate not-for-profits based on their registrations. Because tax issues are different in Canada than here, I'm not sure if they have this type of registry, but you could check.

[Lorraine Bromley]

Geez Karen I don't know why I waste so much time online searching for info, you already have it! I have been thinking about how to find out about legitimate rescues as well. I have one linked to my facebook and we have been thinking of becoming foster home for a long time but aren't quite ready for that yet. Yep next time I'll just pm you! Then when we get it all figured out we'll just post all the answers for everyone else, lol. Thanks

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

When you are ready, I think you will be a great foster, and I think you are the kind of person who will get a great deal of satisfaction from it.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Good info, Andrea, thanks.

[Jess and Pippin]

Great point.  It is just as important to research the rescue organizations.  Not all of them are above board or acting in the best interests of the dogs.  There is a "rescue" group here in Vancouver that has been charged by the police for stealing dogs from people's yards and then putting them up for adoption.  We were looking for another rescue (and then we fell in love with Pippin) and our trainer warned us against this group.  The founder was actually quoted that she had a moral right to take dogs in yards away from their owners and did so without knowing anything about the owner (in this case, responsible owner that was letting dog play in the yard for a while).

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

How horrible!

[Lorraine Bromley]

Thanks for this information. It is too late at this point but may prove helpful in the future.

[Jennifer,Chloe & Myla]

All you can do is try, they are going to do what they want to do anyway. I wouldn't say it's too late though, I would get this info to them and at least know what they are dealing with-facts, not opinions. I hope they have a healthy pup in spite of all of this. 

[Lorraine Bromley]

I was happy to see on the greatdane rescue site that I was given in this thread has Names posted on their web site of the puppy mills they rescued from. PAWS R US had over 600 dogs rescued with the help of many rescues and animal welfare agents. I can't remember the other one they also had a large number rescued from but go to the site and you can find out for yourselves. These were multiple type breeds.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I've come to realize that when it comes to puppy mills there's a lot I just don't know.  Mostly I don't know what I can do to help close them down.  Over the past few days I have been trying to get a better understanding of just why and how they've been allowed to exist.  I did find this information on the ASPCA site (I know there are lots of issues/concerns with just what the ASPCA is or is not doing), but at least this is a start.  http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-cruelty/puppy-mills/laws-that-pro....  I can't decide WHAT I can do about this horrific problem until I can understand more about it...so that's my plan.  I was pretty shocked to see that some states still have no legislation in place.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Jane, what we need is a lobbying group, just like the puppy mills have. Yes, they have a large, very vocal advocacy group, the "Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council" or PIJAC. Take a look at their Board of Directors. I just noticed that the President of Natural Balance Co. is on their board. If I had any choice in what I'm feeding JD, that would be a reason I would stop buying it. I do think some of these people mean well, but when you read the rhetoric on thios website about how passing some of these laws would impact businesses, etc., you see where the problem lies. There needs to be a strong, organized group that can focus on just this one issue (unlike the HSUS and ASPCA) and counter these arguments.

In the meantime, I think we can sign petitions, send emails to legislators, and maybe even let some of these PIJAC people (like the Petco and Petsmart people ) know how we feel.

 

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Exactly.....that's why I'm doing this research.  I'm trying to find out if there are other well organized efforts out there that can help us navigate this.