Spay or Neuter is 8 weeks to early?!

[Laura]

we are looking into breeders to buy a labradoodle. Some of the puppies come spay or neutered. The research I have done some say it's way too young...Anyone have thoughts on this? Thanks 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

We have had many discussions here about this, and the general consensus is that, for major health reasons, no dog should ever be spayed or neutered before they reach full skeletal growth. There is quite a bit of veterinary literature and studies to support this. 
I will try to find you a link to our previous discussions. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

THIS is the most comprehensive discussion on this topic: http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/healthandmedicalissues/forum/topi...

And here are some others: 

http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/labradoodle-breeders-who-d...

http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/early-spay-and-neuter-evid...

http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/interesting-article-about-...

http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/health-effects-of-neuter-a...

[Deanna & Desi & Cori]

Karen has provided you with some excellent information - definitely worth the read.  I will just add my personal experience with Early Spay and Neuter.  When we got our first labradoodle, we really knew next-to-nothing about what to look for in a quality breeder (we didn’t find DK until after our puppy came to live with us).  We found a breeder a reasonable distance away with a planned litter that met our timeline. The website looked good, lots of good information, good reviews, etc., so we put our name on the waitlist. At the puppy visit, we were given literature about the benefits of ESN, published by the vet program at UCDavis - just down the road from the breeder. It sounded wonderful, a perfect way to avoid the hassles of surgery later down the road. 

Sedona turned out to be a super puppy - smart, lovable, funny, and adorable! However, around her first birthday, we started to notice urine leakage. Her vet felt that it was likely related to the ESN and that probability was confirmed by lots of research. We lost Sedona at age 6 to cancer. Some literature suggests a connection between ESN and an increased cancer risk. 

So in answer to to your question - I have very strong thoughts on this subject. If a breeder insists on ESN, turn and walk away!!!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Another member here, Cindy & Olive, lost her ALD Ripley to lymphoma at only a year and a half old, and feels strongly also that it was related to ESN. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

This page a past discussion also includes info on this: http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/sick-doodles-thoughts?id=2...

[Leslie J]

I regret Cocoa being spayed at 8 weeks.  My vet thinks that it is why she has such long skinny legs and that it was a factor In her torn ACL. I will never allow another ESN- it would be a deal breaker for me. 

[Laurie, Wally & Charlotte]

My Wally was diagnosed with hip dysplasia at a young age, possibly connected to his being neutered just before we got him at eight weeks. I don't see any health benefits whatsoever, and I suspect that many breeders have their litters fixed early to prevent future owners from breeding their dogs. When we got Charlotte, I made sure that her breeder didn't spay or neuter the puppies early. We were given a contract requiring us to have Charlotte spayed once she reached adulthood and we were required to send the breeder proof of the procedure. 

[Wendy and Myla]

Myla was spayed when we got her at 8 1/2 weeks. We totally researched our breeder to make sure that all health checks were in place as we had just lost a doodle at the age of five because we got her from a backyard breeder.  We did not research that much on early spay and thought that it was a great option, included in the price.  Honestly, Myla is almost six years old and we have had absolutely no problems with her but because of all I have learned since we got her, I would never have had her spayed at that age.  I do know that our breeder would have given us the choice and if we decided to spay her at a later age, we would have gotten a discount in price (we just thought it was a bonus at the time)  Listen to all of the advice and if you are seriously looking at buying a doodle, I would go to the vet that you think you will use and ask her/him for their advice!  Also, if there is a breeder that you are seriously thinking of, I'm sure that if they're reputable at all, they will give you the choice!

[Stacy]

You've already gotten good advice, but I wanted to chime in - at the risk of sounding bitter. I think these breeders are not doing early spay and neuter to protect their breed, or the puppy, but their market share. What is keeping someone else from doing what some of them are doing - breeding dogs indiscriminately and charging $3000.00 for them? People often live far away from their breeder. Even with a contract, they'll probably never know...  

I can't tell you how often on facebook I see someone with a 7 month old puppy looking for a stud to have more "perfect" goldendoodle babies. I think, good lord, these people have no idea what they're doing. But do they really know less than the breeder who does no health testing? The breeder who continues to breed dogs that have produced puppies with cancer, poor knees, poor hips, poor temperaments. I think they don't want to risk losing sales to the competition.

There are breeders, and I'm not trying to throw good breeders under the bus. I know they're out there. But there are breeders to whom the dogs are just a commodity. A few puppies die, no big deal, they'll just have another litter. We need to really wake up and pay attention to where these dogs are coming from. How is the mother living? What happens to them when they're too old to breed? Do they spend the best years of their lives in a pen waiting to come into heat and have another litter of puppies?

I've done things that I'm not proud of. I've made mistakes. But I hope that in the future we will be more educated. That we will refuse to buy from breeders that don't meet exacting standards. That some of these people will go out of business, and  the dogs will be better off because of it. 

[Ginny Nightingale]

so many breeders are doing this to protect their genetics, but I do not agree with it at all---I work for a breeder raising pups (I am sitting with one right now who will deliver any minute!) and we ask for a certificate at 6 months of Spay or neuter--and if they want to wait a bit longer and ask, we allow it. The health of the dog should be most important. However, I do know some vets who are breeders who do ESN! So there is definitely controversy and frankly, no one will ever know if it was ESN that caused the cancer etc (although leakage is pretty obvious). Regardless, I am personally against it and I just hope you can find a breeder who does not do it!!

[Margaret M Pitts]

Found what I thought was a great breeder close to home. Had so many positives but they neuter/spay before the puppies go home.  Checked with my family who are vets and they were totally opposed. Did more research and had to cross them off my list of safe breeders.  Found another who is much further but does not have any hard and fast rule about early neuter/spay and have put a deposit down on a puppy for the spring.  We had a sweet Golden who had cancer and passed at age 11 and would never do anything that might increase the chances for a dog of mine to get cancer.  Just my humble opinion!!

[Poppie]

The gonads have a lot of input into growth control. There is a theory out there that may be a reason a lot of dogs these days have hip dysplasia.  When the gonads are removed early, the bones don't know when to stop growing so they overgrow and bone growth is not normal.  The larger the dog the longer you should wait to have neutered or spayed.  Great Danes should wait till they are about 2 years old.