Stuart's Reactivity

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

    Most of you know of Stuart - our Goldendoodle, rescued from a puppy mill at 7 weeks, we got him from Adopt A Golden out of Atlanta at 8 wks.  He is the biggest love bug ever at 70 lbs and 2.5 yrs.  He is a shedder BIG time, a brother to Rooney and has severe allergies that require us to carry an Epi pen at all times.   Stuart walks best on his Easy Walk harness and has taken training classes (non lately I admit due to our travel schedule).  He was screened to attend doggie day care and has gone to 4 or 5 different ones - all without any problems.  He loves the dog park and gets along with other dogs wonderfully!  He loves all people, young, old, wheelchairs, nothing bothers hime.   Little kids adore him and he allows them to hang all over him - but Stuart has become more and more reactive on leash to other dogs on leash.  It started back 1.5 yrs ago when on a dark night, I was confronted by a man who was acting aggressive to me - Stuart placed himself in front of me and was barking like mad, it has pretty much been down hill from that point.  Was it a trigger?  

   Today was a GOOD day on our walk - we had treats at the ready and when we saw another dog approaching we would start the "Good boy Stuart - Leave it" talk while distracting with a treat.  A few times when he still was on "high alert" we put him in a "sit" to help with keeping his attention and I'm not proud - we will cross the street to help give Stuart "space".  We actually got in a good 3 mile walk, passed 8-10 dogs without a melt down!  Wow - I was so excited thinking we were making progress with my strategy of positive re-enforcement and treating.  THEN dh tells me he "flipped" Stuart twice yesterday in the park behind our condo when I wasn't there.  He told me Stuart lost it when he saw another dog (when I say lost it I mean 70lbs of jumping, twisting, lunging, barking, growling - CRAZY).  Now I don't know what to think.  Is this a bad thing?  He certainly was acting better today but . . . .     The boys used to be such a joy to walk and now not so much.  I've had a spinal fusion in my neck and a lunging dog causes me pain that lasts for days.  I love Stuart with all my heart and want what is best - I know Jane F is the expert here - what should we be doing?

[F, Calla & Luca]

Why Stuart became this way is hard to say but what to do about it is the important thing. I am not a traing guru. But having my dogs in pring collars makes me feel very secure. If you don't have Stuart in one perhaps you should. My dogs really don't lunge or give me a problem but I know I could control over 110 pounds of dogs if they suddenly did.

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

We were having a similar issue with Sophie (and I can already see it starting with AnnaBelle).  We signed up with a private trainer mainly for this issue.  It was a problem for me because she has to not do that for her therapy test.  She didn't do it every time, like you mentioned about yesterday.  Just every now and then.  She was picking up some sort of a signal from the other dog.  Anyway, the trainer asked that we bring both dogs in prong collars to all classes.  (I know, I cringed and almost didn't sign up for  the class).  Her thought process is that I have to have them on a collar where they can feel the correction.  When he goes off on you in the Easy Walk Harness, you don't have any way to correct him other than just pulling and that just makes him pull harder.  Sophie was on a Gentle Leader Head Harness and the trainer hates those because you could hurt their neck in the process of trying to correct.   The only reason that I continued with the class was because Lucy would come right up to me to have her Prong collar put on.  She would run from me when she saw the GL Head Harness.  We would practice meeting other dogs.  When I saw them approach I was to just do a "look at me", have her attention focused on me.   The "look at me" was to let her know that she didn't need to worry about it, I was in charge and i had it under control.   If at any time that focus turned to the other dog and I sensed that she was going to go off, just a slight tug on the prong and a "leave it" or "look at me" would bring her attention right back to me.  We had a lot of success with it.  I'll be watching for what Jane has to say because as I said, I've already seen a little of this with AnnaBelle at only 5 months.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I have had to work very hard with JD on this same issue for years. An 85 lb dog going air-borne in a snarling frenzy is not a pretty sight. I can't give you specifics, but for us it boils down to lots of practice with proper leash walking to begin with (not pulling, responding to my verbal cues, etc) and then my seeing the other dog before he does and getting his attention on me and off of the other dog. I also used the Easy Walk harness for many years, but recently had to stop using it because JD has several large lipomas that were being chafed by the harness. I'm happy to say that I can now walk him with just a plain flat buckle collar and prevent the reactiveness 95% of the time. But it does take a LOT of work and practice. 

I'm sure Jane F. will have better and more practical advice for you. :)

[Jennifer and Jack]

Though Jack is little, ever since he got his hip ripped out of socket by a big dog..he shows fear aggression to big dogs that ate high energy.. He is fine around big dogs that are calm...but any big dog that is hyper and my guy is wanting to fight them......

We do not go to dog parks unless they have a little dog section and he is never allowed to go near a big dog unless I know the dog is extremely calm.....

He was never like that before..except to on big doodle as a puppy who tried to eat his ice cream..and he growled at her...I would too.

I don't know the answer......we did training right after the incident including putting him in front of big dogs but to no avail....now when we are out...if a big dog approaches us...I pick Jack up and he is fine....if he knows I am on control he will not be afriad or react....but if I am,not standing next to him..or in front of him...he thinks he has to protect himself....

On walks.....I am on a scooter now so if I want to distract him ...I just go faster in the scooter to where he has to pay attention to me or he is going to get pulled,

I know I have no good training experience at all..I only did classes with Jack but wanted you to know...I hope they figure out why cutie pie is reacting that way.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Also, it's really, really important for you to stay relaxed and upbeat when you see another dog. Intellectually, we know that tension flows down the leash, but it's hard to keep that in mind and put it into practice when you're gearing up for a reaction as the other dog heads your way. It was really brought home to me by a recent incident.

We were approaching a house where there is a dog who is often out in his yard alone and is extremely reactive to other dogs walking by; he runs to the fence barking and jumping, and of course JD would always react. On this particular day, I saw that JD was already becoming excited before we even got to that house or saw the other dog, but he actually seemed "happy-excited", like he does when we pull into the parking lot at the forest preserve dog park, and he can't wait to get in there and play ball. It was as if he was actually looking forward to seeing that dog and having the usual barking-jumping-lunging p****** match. For some reason, that struck me as funny, and I laughed out loud. I am sure that most trainers would be appalled by that, but the effect it had on JD was amazing! He looked at me in surprise, immediately relaxed, his breathing slowed, and he walked on by the house without a glance or a sound, even though the other dog did run to fence barking. That taught me just how important my state of mind is in controlling or preventing his reactiveness. 

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

What is anyone's take on the "flipping" that dh did?  Bad thing, o.k. thing?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Yeah, I think that means an "alpha roll" and IMO, it's not a good thing. It's generally used on very dominant dogs to try to teach them that you are the boss and they are beneath you in the pack order. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Alpha Roll from Wikipedia

From the article: An alpha roll is a technique used in dog training to discipline a misbehaving dog. It consists of flipping the dog onto its back and holding it in that position, sometimes by the throat. The theory is that this teaches the dog that the trainer is the pack leader (or alpha animal).

[Jennifer and Jack]

poor baby Jack, I used to roll him as a puppy before I knew about DK..... I did it gently but I still did it and held him till he relaxed.... 

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

If Stuart's reaction is because he's stressed by the other dog (and I'm guessing it is...that was Murph's problem), then I do think the "flipping" is not a good thing.  Dog is feeling stressed and insecure...he doesn't know how to handle it...he reacts...his leader "flips" him making him more stressed...next time he sees a dog that stress level is even more heightened and the reaction is worse.

[Cheryl and Finnegan]

Agree!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Oh Jane, I'm so sorry that you're having to deal with this.  You know what we've been through with Murph, and it was so horribly stressful.  The worst was the day that he "flipped me" when he saw another dog on our bike path....literally dragged me about 30 feet and scraped up my legs and arms badly (Summer clothes).  I have used every kind of collar made...including a choke collar, a prong, and even an e-collar.  Now he's only on a Gentle Leader and it is clearly the best for him.  Here are a few things I've learned along the way....

-Collars are only tools...they are only as good as the trainer.  That said, the harness is only a restraint....it will not teach anything.  Many highly reactive dogs HATE being restrained.  It adds to their stress and can take what starts as a mild reaction into an out of control zone.  If you're trying to teach the dog what you expect you will need a way to show them they make a "mistake".  For me now, that's just a slight tug on the Gentle Leader BEFORE the reaction.  It says I'm not liking your state of mind....pay attention to me.

-YOU are the key.  Reactive dogs are often very much in tune to their leader....they gain their confidence from knowing that the leader "has their back".  When they don't feel that way, they start to feel that it's there job.  I would guess that that incident with the stranger frightened you and that's when Stuart felt like he had to be the one taking charge in that context. As stressful as this is for you...it's equally stressful for Stuart.  You may not have subconsciously let go of that feeling either....and each time that Stuart has a reaction you will be more and more insecure.  It's really kind of a self fulfilling cycle.  He reacts...it unnerves you...you worry that you will be hurt...Stuart senses your discomfort and becomes more stressed...next dog he sees he reacts....and it goes on and on.  I know I was in that cycle and still have to guard against it.

-You and DH will have to do the exact same thing with Stuart....otherwise he'll sense a difference and that will be an issue.  My DH does not walk Murphy ever because he wasn't able to execute the training the same way I do it and Murph took big advantage of that.

-Here's the process that works for us with Murphy.

It starts before we leave the house or car.  Everything is calm and controlled.  He has to wait at the door until I exit first and in the car he sits calmly while I leash him up and then invite him out.  Any sign of excitement and we wait.  At the beginning we waited a long time.

On the walk he can never be out in front of me.  He must walk by my side....not a perfect heel but always by my side.  No pulling or smelling is allowed.  Half way through and at the end we stop and I give him a "free" and then he gets to smell and "pee" on whatever he wants.  This is critical to them understanding that YOU are controlling the walk and making the decisions.  Letting him get in front of me makes it very difficult to control him when he spots another dog.  It's so much easier to take charge of that situation when he's by your side or a few steps behind.  We practiced this in places where we were not likely to encounter other dogs until we got good at it.

I only walk in places where I can execute the "process" (which I'll describe in a minute).  I gave up walking on streets or paths where there was no room to maneuver and other dogs could get within a few feet of us.

So when we spot another dog approaching, here's what we do.  First I try to assess whether this dog is a problem...is he pulling and yipping and is he on a flexi-lead where he might actually reach us.  If it's a calm dog who is controlled by the owner I make the decision that we'll walk by.  As we approach I watch Murph closely for any signs that his state of mind is changing...."body stiff, ears forward" always says he's going to have a problem.  That's when I give him a little "correction" and gain his attention.  Keeping a loose leash is key here.  I do move my hand down to about a foot from the link to the collar but make sure that I don't tighten up at all.  It's a huge trigger for Murph because it makes him feel trapped and will always react if I do that.  I never change my walking pace and try to maintain confident body language.  For a long time I would get nervous at this point and start to brace myself for the reaction...that was a mistake because he knew I was insecure and didn't trust him.  I keep telling my self that Murph will do what I expect him to...because he's that in tune with me.  So if I expect him to react, he will.  Okay so lets say all that worked and now we're past the dog....we have a party...a calm one but a party nonetheless.  Praise, affection and treats are the result every single time we pass a dog without a reaction.  We stop and have this party.  On a busy day this happens several times.  As much as possible I use real meat for these rewards.

Okay now lets say that either I spot an out of control dog or I can see by Murphy's body language that he's not going to be able to manage passing this particular dog.  I move slightly to the side to give ourselves at least 10 feet of space and put him in a sit.  I again keep a loose leash and ask him to look at me.  I talk to him very calmly and softly and gently stroke the top of his head pulling his ears back (that for some reason is very calming for him).  Every time he looks right at me he gets a small piece of the treat.  This works like a charm AS LONG AS YOU'RE CALM THROUGH THE WHOLE THING.  I sometimes now get right down with him and we have this whole "bonding time" as the other dog passes.  It's such a different feeling from the "barking, growling, lunging" days.

Then there's the "all else fails" strategy.  This is where the other dog is actually frightening to you.  I've had a few recently...one was an intact huge boxer who was dragging it's owner down the street and went crazy when he spotted us.  In these situations I turn and walk in the opposite direction quickly.  I will not subject either of us to that...and I won't allow one of those situations to undo any of our work.

All of this has come after many months (years actually) or working with a great trainer.  He knows me so well now and he can always sense what I'm thinking and how that's going to affect Murphy.  If you can find someone like that it would be great, but I know there aren't many of them around.  I still work with my trainer once a week, because I always learn something that helps me to better understand my guys.  I so wish you lived closer and we could walk together.  Please use me as a sounding board...I've been there and I know how difficult this is.  I've had some pretty dark days with Murph...and a walk will always be a bit of a challenge...but things are so much better and enjoyable for both of us now.