To treat or not to treat

[Discussing Labradoodles & Goldendoodles]

What is everyone's philosophy regarding treats and obedience? My instructors say to treat until the dog is flying into a command. However, they say no treats for sit or stay. I use treats sparingly and only give treats for perfect, not nice try. I would like to stop using treats all together and would rather have my dogs work for my praise than for treats.

[Adina P]

This is quite a controversial topic. Some are very against anything that might be even remotely not "positive."
I think we have a wide variety of opinions here on doodlekisses =)

Personally, I prefer choosing based on method and results rather than tools.
Is it clear? Fair? Does it give the dog choices? Does it work for just about anyone who can follow directions in a reasonable amount of time? Does it have a track record with real people and real dogs in the real world?

I use/d a method that has been around for YEARS and is extremely effective and outlined well in a video series I did a review of.

That said it does utilize a choke chain and does involve physical corrections. But they are all done in a fair way and the dog learns very quickly. It also involves A LOT of praise and the dog is not out in the dark unsure of what is going on.

I think some people can do really well with their dogs with treats alone...but a lot of dogs need more clarity: black vs white. NOT getting a treat isnt always enough consequence -- not for my dogs!

Treats are fine for fun times, occupying them, and tricks...but they never got the job done for me when it came to work around distractions. I have no interest in having pocketfulls of treats at all times.

[Linda and Murphy]

I have trained with treats and weaned Murphy off. Training the weave poles I use canned squirt cheese. (Weave poles are the hardest to learn in agility.) He gets a treat only for perfect weaves.
My instructor taught us to use the highest value treat for "come" command. (in class we used Cesar dog food). "Come" is a command that can save their lives and should always be a positive experience.

Murphy was 6-8 mos when we were taking this class. He was on a long lead with someone holding him, and I was 30-40ft away. I was told to say "Murphy, come!" and turn and run away with the Cesar in hand.
Well, Murphy took off at full speed and sorta tackled me. We both ended up on the ground. He got the cesar and I got cesar kisses.

Another thing to consider is how soft tempered your dog is. I cannot raise my voice to Murphy..it crushes him. If I say "BAD" he is in his crate and will not come out without permission.

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

I guess I fall somewhere in between. Like Adina I have used a tried and successful old system of collar ( only I use a german made Herrman Springer prong collar) and praise. I did not have the video she used at the time, but I do think it is great. It is very similar to the method I use which I learned years and years ago from a good trainer. He did not use treats and was a certified trainer of police dogs and also had trained many dogs for tv shows. With my doodles I went to "Beyond the Leash". Like my first trainer Scott is a certified police dog trainer and uses large amounts of treats.. in conjunction with basically the techniques I had already learned.....So I learned to use treats too.Really treat training is just like clicker training. "Good dog" or the clicker becomes indelibly linked with food. As the puppy matures treats become less important and good dog becomes the replacement. For some dogs food is really just an enormous distraction. For some it is a helpful, focusing tool. A good trainer plus consistency, patience, and 15 minutes twice a day for a year or more are the necessary ingredients to a well trained dog. Treats are optional to success, but I like giving my dog treats and I don't wait for perfection I give them for improvement. For example with a 4 month old puppy walking on a leash with me, luring with a treat would be helpful if he was a reluctant walker. Then by 4 and 1/2 months I would be training my puppy to sit when I stopped and any old sit near me would get a reward. At five months I would practice the automatic sit against a wall so that he had to sit straight and that would be rewarded. At six months perfectly straight sits only would merit a treat. At one year an automatic sit would be just that -- automatic and the occasional good dog would be sufficient. Training a dog is a lot harder than it looks, but patience and persistence will take you a long way. Treat if you want, don't if you don't want to. I think the only exception to treating is no treats for the stay - It is hard for the dog to tell why he is being treated - because you returned? Then he will break the stay sure as anything as you get close. Enjoy the journey.

[sandy b]

I agree with Ann regarding the "excitedness". I taught Max the basics using the clicker method and lots of treats and when I say commands with a happy voice his response is so much better.