training collar

[Kimberly and Mikey]

I have a 9 month old f2 standard GD. He went through 6 weeks of board and train and did I complete 180. We work him everyday as told but he just doesn't seem to listen anymore. We use a pinch collar currently and we even leave the leash attached since he has been acting up. He is very dominant. We even took him back to the trainer for 3 days for a refresher and she said he was even more challenging. I was looking into a shock collar. I know a few people with doodles use them. I was trying to get advice on the best one. When I say shock collar I mean more for the vibrate and noise feature.

thank you

[Amy and Annabelle]

I was looking into one for at least 400 ft since we live on acreage. I also want the vibration or tone, not the shock. They make ones that spray water too, but Annabelle loves water so that feature wouldn't work for her. I have been looking at the Pet Safe one. I know they make better ones but I don't plan on taking her off leash anywhere. They also make ones that are water resistant as well as ones that can submerse in 25 feet of water. We need to get her barking at the neighbors on their atv's and coming when called under control.

[Kimberly and Mikey]

yes. I have seen the pet safe ones. I just don't have a lot of info on any good ones. He isn't good with recall either so I need a good distance.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I think part of the problem may be that you have not been trained to be a leader with him.  This can be the result with some board and train programs, because the dog is trained on how to behave with the trainer but not the owner.  Until you can establish a bond where your GD looks to you as the leader in the relationship, I don't think just changing the collar will get you the results you want.  Have you tried the "Nothing In LIfe Is Free" approach?  I'm a little confused that you say that you are using a pinch collar and "even leaving the leash attached".  Have you been trained in how to use the collar for training?  I don't believe it should ever be used without a leash, and administering corrections with this collar requires a specific technique.  If you plan to use a "shock" collar, I would never suggest trying it without the help of a qualified trainer at least for the first few training sessions with it.  If not used properly it can be extremely stressful to your dog and you can create a very reactive response.

[Alli]

Our little guy is about 10 months old and when he was about 5 months old he went through about 10 days of training with an "e-collar" aka shock collar.  The sound of a shock collar is usually off-putting to most people because they truly think it shocks the dog every time you use it.  The collar we use--which I recommend--has three options: tone, vibrate, and shock (for lack of a better word). In addition to that, it has an intensity level of 0-18.  Our mini doodle Charlie responded so well to it.  He is the best dog, even 5 months later.  The key is consistency!  You still have to continue "training" your dog once he comes home from the trainer.  It's a big commitment, but one that will pay off in the end.  We have never even used the "shock" option with Charlie.  We live on 5 acres so when he's out running and too far to hear us call, we use the tone and he immediately comes running.  When we give him a command like "Charlie, come" or "Charlie, no" or "Charlie, off", he is expected to obey at the first command (like when I used to tell my kids when they were little "be a first time listener!").  If he does not respond to the command, and we are certain that he heard us, then we use the vibrate button to warn him that something worse is coming if you don't obey.  But as I said, we've never had to use the shock button.  Also, we only use the remote at a level 10 or 11 intensity.  And with all that said--he doesn't jump on people when he first meets them because he was trained not to! And the only time we really have trouble with him obeying the "come" command is if he occasionally sees another dog friend in our neighborhood and he gets so excited to go play.  When we walk in the neighborhood he's never on a leash.  He stays by our side and now on his own accord, when he hears or sees a vehicle coming he runs to the grass and sits and waits for it to go by until we give him the release command "Okay, Charlie".  An e-collar is also good for things like digging or chewing on things because you can use the remote secretly and "warn" him that doing that behavior will result in something he doesn't like.  But again--I'm not trying to be boastful rather just making the point that it works--we haven't had any problems with Charlie digging in the yard or mulch and he's never once chewed on any furniture or socks or walls in our house!  I've heard lots of funny stories about chewing!  I think the collars work well, with a good initial training and then consistency with training when he comes homes.  It's a lot of work but it will make your relationship with your doodle so much better!  Charlie has always been a very chill, laid back doodle and not real high energy.  But I believe he could have been like that if we didn't train him.  Not sure where you live but our trainer was great and I highly recommend her! 

[Kimberly and Mikey]

Jane, Why is it so confusing that I am using a pinch collar? He has been out of training over 3 months and I have taken every step to make the training work.  I am still working with his trainer now actually. So yes they have told me to keep the leash attached while I am home and he is supervised. And btw I do know how to give proper corrections. I don't think I would take the time and the extensive amount of money for training and just say eeeeeh lets get a shock collar. I have had numerous training sessions about pack leader and we have been fine all this time. "nothing in life is free" was being implemented even prior to training. Are you a trainer? Because I have used 3 that all say that in my situation it is crucial. and obviously I would be with my trainer before sticking a collar on my animal and shocking him across the room accidentally. REALLY?

[Adina P]

Kimberly, I know on an online forum it is easy to misread someone's intent, but please don't take it personally.  I know Jane and how much she's worked with her most difficult dog and HELPED many members on here.  Her advice comes from a good place.  You'd be surprised at how many people ask questions who can NOT say what you've said.  Or who have NOT followed through. So none of us assume a poster is doing everything correctly because typically that is not the case.  Obviously, you've done a lot more than the average person, so kudos for that!  But when someone asks for help it is natural to troubleshoot and ask lots of obvious questions, just in case :-)

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Thanks for the words of support, Adina!

[Jessica, Loki and Moose]

Just stumbling upon this discussion but I think Jane is just trying to help you... it is clear she really knows what she's talking about (through her own posts and feedback she gives to others) because she has gone through soooooo much with her one doodle and I think she is a very good resource and could provide a lot of help and insight.

I do own a vibration collar by pet safe that has the increasing levels of vibration that I bought for my younger doodle because he is extremely vocal and constantly making a lot of noise. I can tell you I was very nervous and even upset about the idea of purchasing one but after two, two hour sessions with the collar on for when he needed to be quiet he listens when I say "thank you now quiet". The collar allows for one bark before is vibrates so that's when I would give the command. Any who, I know barking isn't the problem your having but I can say the collar does work and I found the product very reliable. I will say I needed a replacement battery, just to have an extra in case I needed it and couldn't figure out where the battery size was listed (blonde moment) and the company is really difficult to get a hold of for customer support. Good luck with whatever you choose for your baby!

[Amy and Annabelle]

Which model did you get? Since her main issue outdoors is barking the bark sensor would be nice. My trainer suggested a couple of different ones, but I keep going back to the Pet Safe one. He is going to be helping me with it in the beginning, but not sure I like the ones he suggested.

[Jessica, Loki and Moose]

I bought it a month ago and no longer have the packaging but it was the one that has increasing vibrations. For dogs under 50lbs I think. It doesn't work for Moose anymore since he's out grown it. On the side of it it says N 13506 and on the top it says RFA-441. Not sure if that helps at all!

[Amy and Annabelle]

Thanks, I found it.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

We use the same Pet Safe bark collar on Ned and Clancy when needed, but it is only for barking.  I think e-collars are just fine as part of a training regimen if that is the method you choose/need.  It is crucial that you be taught to properly use it so I would purchase whatever the trainers recommend you use so that they can teach you exactly when and how to use it for your dood.