Use of Mood Altering Meds

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Murphy's dominance issues have escalated and now we aren't able to leave him alone in the house with our son.  Over the weekend our son, Tim, walked into the den where his dad and I were with both of the dogs.  Murphy jumped up and lunged after him barking and backing him out of the room.  I was right there so I was able to grab his collar and correct him, but our son (who has Down Syndrome and is pretty sensitive) was frightened.  For the rest of the weekend he didn't want to leave his bedroom.  So this is a new level and much more serious than Murphy's dog reactiveness.  I now have Tim doing all of Murph's feedings and whenever he walks into a room where Murph is he tells him to stay and gives the hand signal.  I think this is helping, but I do not trust Murph with Tim at all.  So we're onto Plan B.  We are going to start using an e collar for our training.  Murph is not consistently respecting my corrections when we meet other dogs and that needs to change.  I'm also thinking that he may not be getting enough full out running exercise.  We take him for an hour walk in lots of different places each day and then short potty trips, plus the treadmill if the weather isn't good.  His walks are mostly mental exercise because he is expected to walk right by my side.  So we're going to take him to state land a couple times a week and just let him run.  That may or may not help, but it's worth a try.  I haven't done it in the past because I was not 100% confident in his recall.  I have been keeping him within about a 12 ft radius on these off leash walks.  He will always come to me if he's fairly close.  The ecollar will give me more confidence in this situation.

So that brings me to the question of meds.  I am going to schedule an appointment for Murph with a Vet Behaviorist who practices out of the Specialty Hospital that we used when Guinness had Pancreatitis.  They do a full exam and blood work up before providing a diagnosis.  It will be good to rule out physical causes of Murphy's dominant behavior.  In a brochure that I got from the Behavior Clinic they talk about the use of psychotrophic meds.  They also talk about dietary changes and use of tryptophan for dogs who display dominance aggression.  I have been hoping to avoid this with Murphy, but perhaps it's time.  I think my biggest concern is potential side effects.  When people have side effects to these drugs they are able to talk about it but with a dog we would never know.  The meds could be making Murph feel anxious or uncomfortable and he wouldn't be able to let us know.  Anyway, I have lots of concerns but I'll never know for sure until I go and talk to this doctor.  I'm just wondering if anyone else is using these "mood changing" drugs with their Doodles.  I'd love to have some first hand feedback.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Thanks so much, Bonnie.

[Sue & Lily Grace]

Hi Jane, I just read your post and I am so sorry for you, Tim and Murphy. Tim is really being brave with Murph now. Sometimes we just never knows what happens in a dogs mind. Cassie hid under the bed for over 4 months and I had to carry her to even go out and potty. She was that frightened, even of me. There was nothing specifically that I could see that caused it. She had gone through many surgeries but this particular one just set her off. She was on an anti-depresent but I don't remember what it was. One day she snapped out of it. I hope the exercise and the Specialist's evaluation will give you and Murph the answers you need. You have done so much for him, I pray that the answers are there for you.

Have a wonderful cruise. I will be getting off mine as you are getting on. BTW I am going to see the puppies Saturday. They will be three weeks and eyes will be open. Your family is in my prayers nightly.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Sue, thanks so much for these kind thoughts and prayers.  I didn't realize that Cassie had be on antidepressants..it seems like they did help.  I can't wait to hear more about the puppies!

[Pauline Rackley]

Hi, been following this discussion and hate to sound dumb, but what's an e collar and how is it used?

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Pauline,

No question is too dumb.  You will find a lot of pros and cons during a search, so I chose Wikipedia as the explanation that may be unbiased and more informative.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_collar

[Donna K & Quincy]

Jane, I have to start by saying that I greatly admire your dedication to Murphy, the amount of time energy and training that you give him puts us all to shame. Now I don't have any experience and I only know what you've posted so you can take this for what it's worth. I am glad to hear that Tim is willing to keep working with Murphy, what a wonderful young man he is.

If Murphy were human and experiencing these things I don't think that you would deny him any medication he would need to help him cope. I am not going to tell you what or what not to do but I just want you to ask yourself one question, if you would do it for yourself, why not for Murphy. If you need to go the medication route please don't feel as if you have failed, I can't see how you could possibly have done more and you far exceed what most would do. Good luck and big hugs from us.

I fell a little in love with Murphy when I saw this picture and Murphy is so blessed to have found you, so thank you Jane for loving Murphy in good times and the not so good times.

 

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

So very sweet Donna, so very true!

[Ronna, Murphy & Wilson]

Jane, my Murphy is on Trazadone for his fear, anxiety and noise phobia. I too had reservations about medicating him but I can tell you it has been a life saver. He is better able to cope, he is still my precious Murphy, and the drugs enable him get relief while still being able to learn new behaviors. We use the meds with relaxation exercise under the supervision of a behaviorist and it is truly helping him. I am not a believer in the ecollar as I have seen it go very very bad for a reactive/semi agressive dog, I encourage you to talk to the behaviorist about the ecollar but I respect any decision you make about it. I do agree with F about the tryptophan.....don't think it will help. I think you will have more success with an antidepressant/antianxiety med. We are happy with the Trazadone. I will be thinking about you and Murph and praying you get some answers and relief. Sending big hugs to you.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I was not aware you had started Trazadone and I'm really glad it helped. I have used an e-collar on Luca to train recall, on vibrate only. It was miraculous. But I don't have experience with it on an aggressive dog.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Thanks for sharing this, Ronna.  Were there any negative side effects with your Murphy?  I'm assuming not from what you're saying and I'm so happy that is is helping Murphy's fear issues.  We really need the ecollar in order to give Murph the exercise that we think he needs and still keep him safe.  I'm not going to use it around my son.  I would not want him to associate the correction with  Tim. 

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Thank you Donna.  I fell pretty hard for this guy too! 

[Doris, Knox & Flash]

Jane, I saw your discussion this morning, teared up and did not respond. Knowing how diligently you have worked with Murphy, I knew how hard it must have been to see him react to Tim like he did. After visiting with you on the phone about my concerns with Shiner, I was in awe of your dedication to Murphy and his issues. Never in a million years would I question you on what you believe are your next steps.

I so look forward to getting on that ship and hugging your neck for all that I have learned from you...