Where do breeders get their dogs from?

[Discussing Labradoodles & Goldendoodles]

I was just thinking about how breeders get their dogs.Not me but a lot of people especially pure bred breeders are against mixed breeds unless they are from a rescue then its okay to adopt one.So if breeders are only looking for the betterment of their purebred dogs and to only improve that particular breed.Why would they sell a breeding dog to a breeder that breeds mixed breeds? No reputable breeder of a pure bred dog that cares about their breed and improving upon that breed would ever sell breeding stock to a breeder that breeds mixed breeds.It makes sense to me.So where are these premium  labradoodle  breeders and goldendoodle breeders getting their quality stock from.Once again im confused.What am i missing here?Please keep an open mind these are not my opinions and is not a stab at the awesome LD and GD.

[Lorraine Bromley]

Curious to know what JRD is?? 

I would also like to say people who are part of the AKC and CKC are no different from any of the broader population in that they are not all saints and will and do take part in the breeding of mixes. 

IMO not all poodle mixes are from puppy mills and backyard breeders.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

There is a big difference between having an AKC registration, which is basically sold to the breeder of any dog whose parents are both the same breed, i.e. a "purebred", and a champion show, agility, or obedience breeder. Anybody can get an AKC registration, pet store dogs and puppy mill dogs included. But it takes a lot more than that in the way of breeding and training to produce champions in the show, agility, or obedience rings. Those are the kinds of dogs and breeders we are talking about as the "best of the best".

[Carol Brand]

JRD is Juvenile Renal Disease.  It effects Standard Poodles.  I would not call it a common problem (I only know 1 person whose Poodle had JRD), but it is not rare.  It is something that a Poodle/Doodle breeder should be aware of.

I would agree that there are plenty of AKC/CKC (Canadian not Continental... Continental Kennel Club is a junk registry) who are not not reputable by my standards.  You have to remember that AKC is a registry that will register ANY dog who parents were AKC registered dogs.  Being AKC registered in not an indication of quality by any means.  AKC makes tons of money from registering dogs produced by puppy mills and BYBs.

When I'm talking about a reputable Poodle breeder, I'm talking about someone who is involved in the fancy. A reputable breeder will prove her breeding stock before she breeds because she is constantly looking at the long term preservation of her breed.  She doesn't just breed to produce puppies to sell.  To this end, she shows her Poodles in conformation to demonstrate correct structure and movement and/or shows her Poodles in performance to demonstrate their working style or their ability to take training. 

An interesting secondary question that pops up is....  how are Doodle breeder proving their breeding stock?  If the Doodle is supposed to be a loyal and trainable family companion, why aren't more Doodle breeders out there showing or working their breeding stock?  Yes, you can not show an intact Doodle in AKC events, but what about the purebred Poodle/Golden/Lab breeding stock?  Why don't the ALD organizations hold specialty shows and performance competitions for ALDS (this is common practice for other rare or emerging breeds.)

Anyway... again, I'm happy to help anyone research the Poodle end of their Doodle.  Larraine, do you have a pedigree for your dog?  I might be able to tell you where the Poodle parent came from.

[Carol Brand]

Good lord.  My typing has become an abomination.  Please excuse all of the errors in the above.  Yikes.  

[Lorraine Bromley]

I am pretty sure I have some paper work but being so busy with my house over Christmas and now a couple of deaths I will have to take the time after getting Christmas and guests home. It may be interesting.

[F, Calla & Luca]

Here are what are supposedly the poodles in my doodles past but who knows for sure? I have pedigrees on both my ALDs going back to great grandparents.

Luca: Champion Bonheur Copy Right and Champion Glinondales Nunda, greatgrandparents, both miniatures, who produced Glintondales Sewanka. I believe all these dogs may have been in Australia and I could not find anything on them in the past.

Calla:   Possible poodles IMP/SA Majestic Ultra Redd, Max of Kempton Manor And Meg of Kempton Manor all great grandparents and probably in Australia.

Both dogs have Tegan Park And Rutland Manor dogs for their other great grandparents and who knows what poodles or what dogs were behind them? It's pretty daunting when you realize there are 16 great grandparents for each dog.

Just curious and if you can shed any light that would be good.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I just checked and saw other pedigrees on the web and Max and Meg were labradoodles I believe.

[F, Calla & Luca]

Should read IMP/USA Majestic Ultra Redd.

[Carol Brand]

Rosemary Hagen (Glintondale) was a Canadian breeder of Red Miniature Poodles.  I am not sure if she is still breeding.  It looks like she partnered at one point with Denali Poodles in Ontario.  I don't think she has shown dogs under the Glintondale name for a number of years. 

Glintondale Sewanka was a Red Mini bitch who was bred to Tegan Park Surprise Pac and she is the dam of Canadoodle Primetimes Cimarron.   I believe this breeding took place in Canada. Canadoodles Primetimes Cimarron is a popular ALD sire so Glintondale Sewanka is behind many of the Red and Apricot ALDS.   

The Bonheur Kennel is well known for their show quality Red Minis.  This kennel is going strong today.  Of note from this line is OTCH MACH8 SANEW'S ABUNDANCE OF ENERGY UDX15 who is the great granddaughter of CH Glinondales Nunda by CH Bonheur Nothing But The Best.  This bitch place top three twice at the National Obedience Invitational.

Here is a Poodle pedigree for Glintondale Sewanka (CAN CH Glintondale's Keja Sheshonee is her littermate)  http://www.poodlepedigree.com/pedigree.asp?ID=122705

The Majestic Kennel was a well known Florida breeder of red standards.  They did not show their dogs.  They were color breeders.  I believe that Rutland Manor owned Majestic Ultra Red.   Majestic Ultra Red is the product of a 1/2 brother to 1/2 sister breeding. I don't have a birth date, but I'm guessing early 2000s.  I'm not sure when or how he was acquired by Rutland Manor.   I know he was on the Rutland Manor web site for a while.  As far as I can tell, he was not used to breed Poodles.  Ultra Red's sire, Pierlyham Smalto Future Fire C-CD (that's a Canadian obedience title), was quite heavily used. I would say that Majestic Ultra Red is related to many of the Red Standard Poodles in the US and Canada.  Things did not end well for the Majestic Kennel.  The original breeder died and her daughter took over only to die of a drug over dose.  The dogs were found in horrible condition at the time of her death.

Here are the pedigrees for Ultra Redd's sire and dam

http://www.poodlepedigree.com/pedigree.asp?ID=33996

http://www.poodlepedigree.com/pedigree.asp?ID=141124

[F, Calla & Luca]

Thank you that was very helpful indeed. I did find Glintondale after you located them in Canada and at least as of 2006 Rosemary Hagen had been breeding for 55 years! She is a bit of a dinosaur, or was then, since she noted she had no computer. Luca may be a descendant of Glintondale's Nunda, through Sewanka and Cimarron indeed, but he wouldn't have a  chance of getting National Obedience titles if if could enter!

Sorry to hear though that Calla has a bit of incest in her past and that the kennel ended so tragically. Who knows the real story behind some of these dogs. According to her pedigree Majestic Ultra Redd was bred to Rutlands Omah resulting in Rutlands Redd Rufus who then was bred to Tassies Brandy Liqueur resulting in Rutlands Delilah. She was at Rutland Manor before coming to the US. But thanks to you I may know a bit more. Many thanks.

[Linda, Webber and Seda]

F Parker, Webber has the same poodles on his pedigree...all that you listed.  

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

And I see that Calla has some some Torbec dogs in her lineage. I have an acquaintance with a gorgeous, very even-tempered apricot standard from Torbec.