2 Questions for Breeders

[DeeDee and Sheila]

Oh my!  I honestly don't know what to think.  So I will ask you Dkers and D breeders.  Question 1:  I had to call off purchasing a 2nd doodle bc DH having total knee replacement Tues.  So I have been looking at breeders websites.  I just noticed that a 14 lb female doodle was bred to a 31 lb male doodle.  She just 7 puppies totalling 61 lbs of weight.  This is a reputable breeder.  Is this ok?  Humane?  Normal?  I honestly don't know the answer.

Question 2:  When should a breeding animal be pulled from the breeding line.  My mini ALD had Perthes Disease, a genetic condition that cannot be tested for.  Her mom and dad were fully tested on hips, eyes, thyroid, the usual stuff.  Perthes is found in smaller dogs, the list is long, including miniature poodles. The breeder did the correct thing and paid for the operation up to the purchase price of the dog.  Thank goodness Sheila had only one hip involved, because the cost was a little over the purchase price.  The operation and the rehab were horrific, including 4 mos of trips to the Univ of Il vet clinic for swimming therapy.  The bone socket in the hip was cut off and not replaced, leaving scar tissue to form as the socket.  Awful.  Now I notice that the breeder is still using the mom as a breeder (but not with the same dad) and using one of her sons as a breeder.  We think the mom carried the genetic problem bc the dad Sheila was from had been a proven breeding dog, producing many litters w/ no problems, but Sheila's mom was a first time breeder.  U of I says that they don't know if this is a recessive gene problem or just a gene that can come from one dog.  I guess time will tell.  Do you think that the mom and the son should continue to be used as breeding dogs?

I do want to purchase a 2nd doodle at this point and KNOW that I would never buy one of Sheila's moms dogs, but how do we tell as clients what the track record of the breeders are? Opinions would be appreciated.   

 

[DeeDee and Sheila]

I got answers to the above questions from my daughter, who is a vet.  Duh, puppies, especially minis, are weighed in OUNCES not pounds.  Stupid.  It is also her opinion that the breeder is playing with fire by using the breeder dogs associated with Perthes disease.  Since she majored in genetics, I'll believe her.

Remember, breeders that guarantee health costs have a stop loss on their liability on most of their contracts, which is the cost of the dog.  If costs for a disease go over that, the owner pays.  Or sends the dog back, which costs $350 AND the owner like me already loves the dog and won't do that.

So, who do we trust?  How do you build a sound breed (ALD) if you are not selectively breeding.

[Elizabeth & Cosmo]

 For Question 1:

I'm not a breeder, but, from my family and work background in agriculture, I can say that in the vast majority of cases, if there is a disparity in size, you want the female of a breeding pair to be larger than the male. This is simply safer for the mother and the offspring during gestation and delivery.

 

Of course, I know nothing about this particular case. It is possible that the weight of one of the dogs was reported incorrectly on the web site, or not updated as the dog got older.

 

Just my two-cents!

[Joy Originator of GiantSchnoodles]

Hi, Good questions. I am a breeder of more yrs than I'd like to admit to. I'm the originator of Giant Schnoodles. I am not familiar wi Perthes as I only breed large dogs. However, I have about 1,000 pups in the world with no health problems. This is what I did.  2 yrs of genetic research before the first breeding. check all that's checkable (my word) on offa.org. Then I called everyone I could reach on the pedigree. Found out everything & anything they could tell me about their dogs. If ill or had illnesses, if dead what did they die from etc. I took out all cancer & other diseases that are not testable out of the lines. This left me with few choices but ultimately found the right pair & have an amazingly healthy record. I guarantee wi $$ so I would have heard if there were problems. What I did get were reports around the country from vets who claimed things like gerardia. However, with 7 pups in a litter being shipped all over & only 1 in the litter wi girardia, it became evident that people were being ripped off by some vets. I finally proved it a couple of times wi a pup in San Diego same diagnosis. I took the pup to my vet. No girardia. Been wi my vet over 20 yrs. I believe him. This happened twice in San Diego. I think wi the same vet. So all is not always what it seems. Anyhow, I think the genetics bears out. There is no real evidence that cancer it genetic. There is a lot of cancer it giant schnauzers. The biggest breeder's dogs seem to be living only about 8 years. Since I illiminated cancer from my breeding lines, & I have no pups wi cancer, have I proved something? I don't know for sure. What do you think? btw, Xena is coming 12. Extremely healthy plays like a puppy. Dances, pulls dog cart,  but getting cataracts. Me too darn it. No tests. Probably not genetic. & no prevention that I know of. Just $3,600 per eye cure. & that's just for the dog!  does this help answer your question?  Puppy love from Inventing Joy & Furry Folk