To Ban or Not to Ban Pit Bulls?

[Adina P]

How do you feel about Pit Bulls...while the topic has come up before, I wanted everyone to read this article by well known author, Malcolm Gladwell:

http://www.gladwell.com/2006/2006_02_06_a_pitbull.html

After reading his arguments...what do you think?

[Leslie and Halas]

I don't have an example of that, but I have one example of a good pitbull. One of the trainers at our obedience club has a pitbull, and he's a wonderful dog. He's an example of the well-socialized, etc. dog raised by a great person with great intentions. He's very sweet and mellow. He's not shown any aggressiveness that I've ever seen. There's also a member at the club that has 2 Cane Corsos. He's very involved in the club, and has trained his dogs from puppyhood. They both seem very sweet, and we've been in obedience class with them off-leash, and they're perfectly well-behaved. Another example of a good owner. I don't think he's ever seriously considered breeding the 2 of them, but he has mentioned in passing that he'd like to, because of their temperament. He knows that the breed has a bad reputation, and he wishes more breeders would breed them for temperament.

[Amanda and Quinn]

Actually that exact thing happened with a girl in our puppy class - sent home with one of those "lab mixes" from a shelter. She did EVERYTHING right and now the dog tries to attack every dog in its path. She and Quinn were best buds as puppies, too.

[Linda, Webber and Seda]

I agree Karen.

[Linda, Webber and Seda]

Tell us how you really feel, Nancie :-) I say severely punish the owner of the Pit Bull, not the dog. Two of my sons have Pit Bulls. Both of the dogs have been attacked by other dogs, neither fought back. Here is a picture of Webber and his Pit brother.

[Camilla and Darwin]

I see both sides of the argument, and I wish there was a good solution to the problem. I was actually thinking about this the other day, as I was looking at the bullmastiff club of america. I love the breed, and when I was looking in their information packet, I found this...

"Most bullmastiffs can be taught to share a home with cats, though some with a high prey
drive never seem to lose the temptation to give chase. Other dogs are another matter.
Because the breed was developed to work independently, and to be wary of canine
intruders, bullmastiffs are frequently aggressive toward other dogs. In most cases, males
and females will get along, but a bullmastiff with another dog of the same gender (any
size/breed of dog) can spell trouble. The dogs may do well with one another for years
and then some small trigger sets them off and they will be enemies for life. If you share
your home with a bullmastiff and another dog of the same gender, you must be prepared
to possibly deal with a fight breaking out among them. A fight involving a bullmastiff
almost always involves extensive, expensive veterinary care, and you must separate the
dogs from one another for the remainder of their lives as a precautionary measure. Some
dogs can be socialized to a degree of cohabitation after an incident but, this is the
exception to the rule and not easily or generally accepted by the bullmastiff."

Yes, it's not about a Pit Bull. My point is that some breeds ARE inherently aggressive. They were bred that way. They may not be with their family, but might be with strangers, small animals, other dogs, etc. depending on the breed. I believe this is true of MOST Pit Bulls. "This" being, a higher aggressive tendency towards strangers and other dogs. People are buying/breeding dogs without the proper care or knowledge of how to handle an aggressive breed. Perhaps the aggression is due to bad breeders, but that is irrelevant. If most Pit Bulls that are being bred DO have aggression in them, then we SHOULD be cautious.

Obviously bullmastiff's don't have the same kind of reputation that a pit bull does. I think this is probably due to the fact that they are an established breed, and have a higher amount of ethical breeders. Ethical breeders only sell to informed homes, informed homes are prepared to deal with the dog's specific temperament, etc. I wish we could have the same kind of situation with pits.

It would be best if we could come up with some kind of way to stop irresponsible breeders and owners, because that is the real root of the problem. But I don't see how we could, that seems like a huge grey area that is hard to regulate. It seems that because there are so many pit bull confrontations, cities have no choice but to place restrictions, for everyone's safety. I don't think it's the most effective way of doing things... then again I don't know of a way that IS most effective. Bottom line, if my dog or child was mauled, the fact that it was the owner/breeder's fault would be of little comfort to me.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

What you've said makes a lot of sense. I don't know what the answer is, but I am sure banning the breed isn't going to solve the problem and it isn't going to stop people who want an aggressive dog from finding a different breed to make aggressive, use for fighting, etc.
My shepherd rescue group once took in a dog who had been returned to his "breeder" because he wasn't aggressive enough. He had developed a limp during his time with the family, and the vet was sure it was because he had been hit or kicked by someone trying to make him aggressive.
Fighting pits are beaten by their owners every day with a flat board as part of their training. It's part of the day's routine: time to eat, time to go out outside, time for your beating.
I have absolutely no doubt that Jack would be vicious if he lived with that.
Your last sentence reminds me of a tragic case some years back. A five-year-old child was killed by her family's Golden retriever while playing in the yard. The dog had grabbed the end of the scarf the child had tied around her neck, and the child was strangled. The dog was playing tug-of-war, a game the family had taught her. She had no way of knowing that the scarf dangling in front of her face as the child played with her wasn't just another tug toy.
The family found no comfort in the fact that the dog was just playing and didn't mean any harm. I'm sure that had they thought of it, they would have found even less comfort in knowing that it was their own fault for playing a dangerous game with a big dog, and for leaving a five year old child unsupervised in the yard with an 85 lb dog.
But of course, the dog was blamed.

[Camilla and Darwin]

I agree that banning is not the best option. I guess I am saying is that I understand that cities probably feel helpless about what to do. My uncle works for the city, and is on the city council. They get many requests to ban pitbulls and bully breeds, mainly from people who fear their neighbor's dog will attack them, their kids, etc. and this seems like the only option. Usually these people have already had an altercation with the dog. Again, I wish there was a good way to stop unethical breeders and irresponsible breeders, because they are the root of the problem. And there are many aggressive dogs besides pit bulls, of course, they just seem to be a popular choice for people wanting an aggressive dog.

As for the tragic example, there is a big difference between a Golden accidentally strangling a child in a game of tug of war, vs an aggressive dog who actually attacks and bites someone. In the neighboring city to mine six months or so ago, a pitbull broke through his wooden fence and attacked a woman, and two children she was babysitting in the neighboring yard. Because the children had thrown rocks at the fence. Not over the fence, just against their side of the fence. He tore open the mother's neck. That is not a mistaken game of tug of war. That is full blown aggression. That is a perfect example of a dog who is aggressive, and clearly not under his owners control.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You're right. I think it has to be taken on a case-by-case basis regardless of breed. If a dog is a danger or a threat to others, there have to be laws in place to deal with that, whether the dog is a pit bull or a poodle.
Lots of breeds have tendencies towards same-sex dog aggression, and not only the big pwerful breeds like mastiffs. Almost every terrier breed can be dog -aggressive, especially the males, and pit bulls are terriers. There's a Kerry Blue who has to use the side entrance at my vet's office because he'll fight with other dogs. You'd never think a dog that looks like this is a threat to your dog, but they can do some serious damage. Yet nobody thinks about banning them. Jack Russells are also natural dog fighters.

The difference is, pit bulls aren't cute and fuzzy, and they have amazing jaw strength. Otherwise, a terrier is pretty much a terrier, with a few exceptions.
The tragic story wasn't really meant as a comparison, it just came into my mind because I don't think there is any comfort to be found when a dog harms a child, whether it's the dog's fault, the owner's fault, or nobody's fault. I just don't think it ever makes sense to hate or blame the dog, let alone an entire breed.

[Camilla and Darwin]

Oh, I agree about the terriers. When I worked at a grooming shop, I was bit by three of them. A Jack Russell, And two Scottish Terriers. Also, there are two Jack Russels that live next to us that snarl and lunge at Darwin if they ever see him. Feisty, feisty dogs!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Another interesting thing about instincts in dogs. Most of the breeders here will tell you that it's not uncommon for a female dog to kill another female's puppies...another female living in the same house, a dog she is friends with, plays with, eats with and sleeps with. It's animal instinct. I know that many doodle breeders have had this happen. It's possible that any of your dog's mothers killed another dog's puppies when your dogs were tiny. You wouldn't believe your dog's mother could do that, but it's true. Does that mean these dogs are aggressive or vicious?
No, it's just nature and hormones. They're animals.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Our Springer came from a litter where the family's other dog (a small one) attacked and killed one of the puppies.

[Jacquie Yorke (DRC)]

I don't think the mandatory Pit Bull banning is working out so well in Miami-Dade County FL

Pit Bull Law
It is illegal in Miami-Dade County to own or keep American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, or any other dog that substantially conforms to any of these breeds' characteristics. For more information, view the Miami-Dade County ordinance, Chapter 5, Sec. 5-17.

Court Rules Miami-Dade County Pit Bull Ban Unenforceable

A court ruled Miami-Dade's 20 year ban on pit bulls was too vague in defining "pit bull" and unfairly let animal control officers basically guess whether a dog is a pit bull.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

PRLog (Press Release) – Mar 19, 2009 – Miami-Dade County, Florida - Miami Coalition Against Breed Specific Legislation (MCABSL) and Animal Law Coalition applaud a court ruling that the Miami Dade County Pit Bull ban is too vague, and the county cannot enforce the finding by animal control that a dog is a pit bull that must be euthanized or removed from the county.

The ruling came in a case challenging the finding by Miami Dade County Animal Control that a family pet named Apollo was a “pit bull” that must be removed from the county or euthanized.

The county bans all dogs that “substantially conform” to American Kennel Club standards for American Staffordshire Terriers or Staffordshire Bull Terriers or United Kennel Club standards for American Pit Bull Terriers.

To determine if a dog substantially conforms to these standards, animal control uses a chart that lists 15 body parts such as “head”, “neck”, “lips”, “chest”, “eyes”, “tail”, “hind legs”, etc. The officer places a check mark to indicate whether each characteristic conforms or not to a pit bull. If 3 or more characteristics are checked “conform”, the dog is declared a pit bull.

Rima Bardawil, the attorney for Apollo, pointed out that there is no such chart authorized by the ordinance and it is not clear what standards animal control is using in making its determinations.

Also, Dahlia Canes, executive director of MCABSL, testified that animal control is “constantly” mis-identifying the breeds of dogs. She told the court about one dog that was declared by an animal control officer to be a pit bull mix and ordered euthanized. Canes arranged to have the dog re-evaluated and he was determined to be a mastiff mix. The dog was then adopted to a family in Miami-Dade County.

In this case the animal control officer photographed Apollo from several feet away and then using the photo, picked 3 body parts he said he thought conformed to pit bull standards, whatever those are.

As Canes pointed out later, “Many breeds of dogs and mixes have the same or similar traits. It is impossible to determine breed this way. Seriously, you are going to say a dog is a pit bull based on 3 traits like round eyes, broad shoulders and a muscular body? Dogs are many times genetically a mix of many different breeds. The judge agreed. This proves breed shouldn’t be a factor in deciding whether a dog presents a danger.”


Miami Coalition Against Breed Specific Legislation was formed in 2008 to end Miami Dade County's pit bull ban. For more information and how you can help, visit

www.mcabsl.wildapricot.org


Animal Law Coalition works to stop animal cruelty and suffering through legislation, administrative agency action, and litigation. ALC offers legal analysis of the difficult and controversial issues relating to animals. Visit www.animallawcoalition.com for more information.

There is a $500 fine for acquiring or keeping a pit bull dog and court action to force the removal of the animal from Miami-Dade County.

See a description of each of these closely-related breeds.

To have a dog's breed evaluated, you must bring the dog to Animal Services. Evaluations are conducted in the shelter annex by examination. Appointments are necessary for this service.

Owners of dogs brought in for evaluation and identified as pit bulls will not receive a citation. However, they will be required to remove the dog from Miami-Dade County.

Pit Bull Ordinance

Reporting Pit Bull Owners
If you are aware of the address that a Pit Bull dog is being kept, contact Animal Services at 305-884-1101, or e-mail us.

You may leave your information or remain anonymous.Your concerns will be forwarded to the proper investigator for action. However, all government emails are subject to public records requests. To remain anonymous, complaints can be called in to 3-1-1 or mailed to Animal Services at the address below.


MIAMI-DADE ANIMAL SERVICES DEPT.
ATTN: INVESTIGATION UNIT
7401 NW 74 STREET
MIAMI FL 33166

Pit Bull Investigations
Pit bull investigations are only conducted on dogs whose owner's address is known. Investigations take approximately 15 business days.

If the address of the owner is not known, the complaint will be classified as a stray dog complaint.
If a pit bull is observed running at large, it will be considered a stray dog, not a pit bull investigation. If a pit bull is observed tied on private property without shelter, it is considered a pit bull investigation, not an animal cruelty investigation.
Pit bulls that are picked up as strays and are not registered/licensed will be held for 5 days and then put down. Pit bulls that are picked up with identification or lost pets that are registered will be held for 5 days. The owner will receive a citation and be given the opportunity to remove the dog from Miami-Dade County.