Bladder Stones - UPDATE

[Adrianne Matzkin]

Samantha has had UTI's on and off for 2 years. She has been on antibiotics for 3 weeks and we went for revisit this morning. She had urinalysis was no better our vet did an xray. Her bladder is filled with stones! She is on a new antibiotic for 15 days when we will do another xray - if she still has any she is scheduled for surgery that day. 

I called Champion foods - they do not make prescription diet foods. I did by a small bag of Hills at the vet until I came home to do my own research - he is quite a distance from our home  and if I wasted money so be it. I am not opening it until I hear what kind of stones our vet believes she has -  I KNOW that is is crap food so please no one admonish me for it.   

I am researching foods for Samantha. If anyone has a recommendation I would love to hear it. 

The list below is for a low oxalate diet. If she has these kind of stones, which the reading I have done seems most dogs have them,  then I can cook for her and find a Champion food that will be good for Samantha.

Group 4 (low-oxalate foods) are “green light” ingredients. They can be fed in any quantity, though they should still be combined with calcium. Foods in boldface are particularly low in oxalates:

• Nuts and seeds: coconut, flax seeds, pumpkin and squash seeds, and sunflower seeds.
• Vegetables: artichokes, asparagus, avocado, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, corn, cucumber, garlic, green or red peppers, lettuce, mushrooms, peas, canned pumpkin, sauerkraut, canned string beans, tomato juice, canned water chestnuts, and zucchini. (Onions should never be fed to dogs).
• Legumes: lima beans, black-eyed peas, garbanzo beans, lentils, and split peas.
• Fruit: apples, fresh apricots, bananas, cantaloupe, cherries, cranberries, grapefruit, lemons, lychee,melons of all types, nectarines, olives, oranges, papayas, passion fruit, peaches, pears,pineapple, plums, raspberries, strawberries, tangerines, and watermelon. (Neither grapes nor raisins should ever be fed to dogs).
• Grains: white bread, whole wheat bread, cornbread, hominy (corn grits), oat bran, rice noodles, semolina, white rice, corn and white flour tortillas, and wild rice.
• Fats: all fats and oils, including butter.
• Fish: all fish and seafood (shellfish).
• Dairy: all, including cheese, cottage cheese, cream, eggs, yogurt, ice cream, and sour cream.
• Meat: all meat and poultry, including organ meats, luncheon meats, sausage, and bacon.
• Sweeteners: all natural sweeteners, including sugar (not recommended for dogs) and honey.

May 12

The surgery was a success!! The day after surgery was painful to watch Samantha. She was in agony after she peed. The doodle that doesn't show any pain whatsoever stood like a bronze statue for 10 minutes after she peed. Very slowly the pain subsided for her to sit and then to lay down. It was an eternity for  all of us. The next time the statue lasted only 5 minutes. Then she didn't pee for hours! I called Dr. John and suggested to wait 2 hours to see if she would pee again and if not we were going to go to  see him - he was concerned it might have been a blood clot. At 4:30pm, our time to go out SUCCESS and it seemed she was in no pain!! Since then she is feeling better every day.

Friday night when I was getting ready to go to bed in my den with her(no stairs allowed yet) I turned around and all 4 doodles were gone!! I ran upstairs and their they all were in my bedroom!!  CAlled Dr. John Saturday morning and he said if she wants to do steps let her but no running up and down. Yesterday she play bowed to Niña; Samantha only has play bowed to one other doodle, Jeannine's Sully, in years; she has been trying to get us to play ball which she isn't allowed to yet. 

Except for giving her  antibiotics, cleaning her wounds and watching her like a hawk that she doesn't scratch or lick her wounds, life is basically back to normal. Samantha also had a inflamed hair follicle removed from her chin which she tries to scratch all the time and one removed her side which  leaves alone.

I just received a call from Dr. John. He believes the stones were produced because her urine culture came back with multiple positives including staph and tetracoccus bacteria gram + which has to be treated with injections (under the skin) of gentamycin. The bacteria she has is resistant to all other drugs. This drug is not to be taken lightly - side effects are kidney issues and deafness. Doing my laypersons research on it now and putting together a list of questions for Dr. John. He is not an alarmist, he does treatments in steps and if they don't work he goes to drugs like this. 

He is ordering the meds and later this week we will go for me to learn how to inject the meds.

We are waiting for the results on the test results on what kind of stones they are - it might be 2 weeks.

 

 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm very sorry to hear this, Adrianne. I hope surgery isn't needed.

You are right, the type of stones will determine what kind of diet may or may not help. When will you know?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

According to this article, from a very reliable source,  Oxalate stones are rare in females. http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=662

[F, Calla & Luca]

I am sorry to hear about Samantha and I await your update.

[Adrianne Matzkin]

Thanks Karen!! I am just beside myself.

I emailed my vet the foods I posted above - he had to leave due to an emergency with one of his patients. I haven't heard back yet. If my looking at the xray means anything, they looked like big round marbles - not the long, wormy shaped which I believe are the struvite stones. What blew my mind and his is that there is very little room in her bladder for anything because there are so many stones. He couldn't believe that she didn't cry when she urinated. Ms. PIA Stoic Doodle!!!! 

She still has lots of blood in her urine! But at least this time her urine was red - 3 weeks ago it was and I almost flipped when I saw it. 

73% are male - I wouldn't doubt that she is one of the 'special' 27% of females to have them.

I just don't know how he will know because from my 'specialist reading' (WOL!) the only way to really know what the stone is made out of is to have it tested in a lab and the only way for that to happen is from surgery.

I am going to have them email me all her lab work.   I don't know how that will help me other then to compare it to some of the reading that I did today. 

The choice of foods is very confusing - some sites say white flour and no wheat flour but give them milk to add calcium. Some say high protein diets are not good and other suggest raw. 

UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is from dogaware.com  - Karen, have you looked at their site? Are they really knowledgeable?

Because different stones require entirely different treatment – and often completely opposite treatment – it’s critical to identify the type of stone accurately. Without removing a stone there is no way to know for sure, but a good guess can be made based on urinary pH; the dog’s age, breed, and sex; type of crystals, if present; radiographic density (how well the stones can be seen on x-ray); whether infection is present; and certain blood test abnormalities. 

While a low-protein diet is not required to dissolve struvite stones, it can speed their dissolution (when accompanied by appropriate antibiotic therapy). Protein provides urea, which bacteria convert or “hydrolyze” into ammonia, one of the struvite building blocks. However, this approach is not a long-term solution and will not prevent the formation of infection-induced stones. Feeding a low-protein diet to an adult dog to help dissolve stones is acceptable for short periods, but because they are not nutritionally complete, low-protein foods are harmful to adults if used for more than a few months, and they should never be fed to puppies.

This site suggests that the infection results in the stones. Get rid and keep away the infection, the stones will stay away. If I understand this info, diet has very little to do with stones - if is the infection that is causing the stones. 

I am going to send my vet this site for him to research for me. 

[Adrianne Matzkin]

http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjstruvites.html

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Adrianne, I would not use this dogaware site for information or a reference. It is not a science based site, and the woman who writes the articles and gives the information has no formal training in any veterinary or medical field, as she herself discloses: http://dogaware.com/about.html

I would only research reliable veterinary sites and information. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I would add that the Whole Dog Journal is not the best place to get medical/health info either. :) 

[Adrianne Matzkin]

Thanks!!! It is so confusing. What is funny about the list of toxic foods is back in the day 25+ years ago my Beardie's summer treat were frozen grapes. 

I am waiting for my vet to send me her lab work and exactly what the infection is. I think with the pH levels, etc I will have a better understanding - I was so upset this morning that there was no way for me have the mindset to ask all the questions that I need the answers to. 

She will be okay!! I  know she will be!!! 

[Holly Paterniti]

Adrianne.......when you get a chance tomorrow evening...........give me a call.......let's talk :)

[Brittney & Cally]

So sorry to hear this. I hope surgery is not needed either. Keeping you and Samantha in my thoughts!

[Adrianne Matzkin]

This is from the site 

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&am...

"Dietary
Dietary dissolution of stones is possible with struvite bladder stones. Some therapeutic foods are made for the specific purpose of dissolving struvite stones. The therapeutic diet must be the only food fed until the stone is dissolved. Antibiotics are needed as long as stones are in the bladder (bacteria are encrusted within the stone and as the stone dissolves, they are released). On the average, three and a half months are needed to dissolve the stone but the diet should be continued for a full month after the stones are no longer visible on radiographs because there may be small stones that are not large enough to see. Radiographs are taken monthly to monitor progress. If a dry food is used, ideally water should be added to it; the extra water helps keep the urinary crystals diluted and able to dissolve. Talk to your veterinarian about which prescription diet is best for your pet."

Another paragraph to confuse the issue!!!!!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

This one is about struvite stones, though. I think it's crucial that you know what kind of stones you're dealing with before you can plan anything. This article has some good info too: http://www.2ndchance.info/calculi.htm