OMD - They are fighting!

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

Up till this point Rooney has pretty much held on the alpha role with Stuart.  Rooney being almost 13 months to Stuarts almost 6 months - Rooney thought that since this was his turf he would lay the law down to Stuart.  Stuart being a puppy, was a little bitey to Rooney but he quickly taught him a thing or two.  There was a lot of wrestling and play biting, growling, etc.  I got back from NYC today - haven't seen the boys in 5 days and things HAVE CHANGED.  Stuart is asserting himself and is really being a bully.  Rooney tries to stand up for himself but Stuart does have him on size now (21.5 to 39 lbs).  Rooney has gotten very vocal, and they are really fighting now - biting each other too hard.  I've broken it up several times and told them "no".  I've put Stuart down for a nap - to give Rooney some space.  Once (and it was a BIG mistake) Rooney was running from Stuart and I picked Rooney up, now when things get rough he runs to me - I haven't picked him up again.  Is this normal?  How much do I let them figure out themselves?  When is rough too rough?  Am I right to intervene?  Help!

[Cindy M, Zachary & the Frenchies]

Jane unless one of them is actually getting really hurt, (not a small bit of blood from a superficial bite, or some barking or wimpering) I would let them work it out. I have had dogs who don't get along, and it is very hard to live with dogs who constantly fight and have to be kept seperate. I think sometimes we can contribute to this by separating them too soon and not giving them a chance to work it out canine style. I have a dog who runs to me for "safety" when things get too rough. She had a back injury some time ago and I felt bad for her and started picking her up, rather than providing her a safe place to retreat to, and now I am the place she retreats to. Sometimes when there is doggy chaos in the house I end up working with her in my lap.Definately reduces my productivity.

[Jersey, Jasmine, Jypsy and Diane]

Have you had an animal behavior specialist check them out? For peace of mind and to stop it before it really gets out of hand, it might be a good idea.  My dogs play rough with each other, but it is all noise. Every once in awhile someone yipes and they immediately stop playing and lay down after checking to see if the "injured one" is OK. Good luck.

[Ginny Nightingale]

So sorry to hear this--my puppy has been the boss since the age of three months because he can be very aggressive and will snarl and growl when he wants to get his way. The girls (his mom and my other doodle) rarely challenge him and he wins all the time--not great, but no fighting. However, his brother came over one day and they were playing and my puppy got annoyed--all of a sudden his brother let out a yelp and backed away from my pup and it took him a while to want to play again. When no one is really backing down that is when you have a fight--but if Rooney is giving in to it and not fighting back, you have to leave it that way. There is no way that you can make Rooney the alpha and get Stuart to be nice. As long as Rooney isn't getting seriously hurt, I think you have to let him be bullied (within reason, of course!) by Stuart because their personalities dictate that. I think that the idea of giving Stuart a time out is a good one and also it is a good idea to do things with Rooney alone so that he doesn't feel like he is always the underdog--no pun intended!

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

Thanks Ginny - Rooney does need some of my time alone.  He is a very sensitive dog and he is just looking at me like he is a bit confused by this turn about.  I don't care if Rooney isn't the alpha but I don't want either dog being a bully to the other.

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

I don't think that they are drawing blood - but Rooney is starting to act afraid of Stuart.  Stuart's been having the zoomies and when Rooney wouldn't join him, Stuart just t-boned him.  Stuart has come home from the dog sitters house FULL of himself and he is full blown wild puppy mode.  It has been pouring rain here so I'm sure that Stuart needs some exercise!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Have you started obedience training with Stuart yet?  That will definitely help.  I'm sure you're thinking...."there's Jane the training nut again" but I really do think it's helpful to be able to put them into a command that will calm them (like the down/stay) until "order is restored".

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Jane, this sounds just like my house.  Give Rooney places where he can go and Stuart can't get to him in case he just wants to escape.  Guinness hides out under the bed or chairs and Murph can only bark at him to come out....Guinness loves this because he knows his brother isn't going to be able to get to him.  For the most part I let G & M work it out myself.  I only intervene when one of them actually "yelps".  That's when I break it up...sternly put them BOTH in down stays and wait right there to be sure they don't move.  They usually calm down at that point and the "fight" is over.  Eventually I think Rooney will get fed up with Stuart and put him in his place.  Every now and then Guinness will do that...he'll give Murph a good bite and then run for cover.

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

Rooney isn't giving up - that is the problem, he is fighting back.  If it were so annoying it would be funny.  Stuart was biting Rooney so Rooney grabbed on to Stuart's ear and would NOT let go.  Stuart then and went and got on Rooney's bed and that made Rooney mad.  Jeez this is like having kids!  Stuart has gotten so BIG and yet Rooney is trying to mount him in a funny looking attempt to say he is still boss.  There are 4 bully sticks on the floor but they fight over the one that the other has.  Yikes what have I come home too?  Not sure where Rooney can go that Stuart can't - he'd still fit under a bed but I'll give it some thought and see what I come up with.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Okay after hearing this I'm way less worried.  If Rooney is standing up for himself, then they're just working things out together.  If there's no yelping or blood, then it's all good.  They're just being brothers.  Guinness will still try to mount Murph on occasion...it's totally hysterical.  My guys ALWAYS want the same toy too...doesn't matter how many others there are.  I used to buy two of everything, but gave that up because it doesn't matter.  Don't worry, Jane.  Boys will be boys.

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

I buy two of everything and Vern wants whatever Fudge has at the moment. Vern is almost 50 pounds more than Fudge and he has been crazy lately too. I think it is his age, but I have been making him stop, and putting him in a sit until he calms down. Sometimes, when I think he is being a bully and I make him stop, Fudge comes back for more and then I let them work it out.

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

Well there is not blood (yet) but there is some yelping - that is when I step in and try to re-direct.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I step in when I hear the yelping too....that's when they have to "go to their corners". It is usually Guinness who yelps (although on occasion it is Murph), and it usually means that his brother is being a bully.  In a little while I release them and they're buddies again.