I'm stumped.

[Mandy & Benny]

Hi all.  I've got a few coexisting issues that I'm unsure how to deal with, so I thought I'd see if I can get some input.  I've had Benny for five weeks now.  Three of those weeks he's been on antibiotics for a severe UTI.  The vet is also having me mix prescription food in with his regular food to see if that will decrease the excessive crystals in his urine.  Obviously all of this has been a wrench thrown into the process of housebreaking him.  Benny had been doing much better with the potty training after a couple weeks of the antibiotics, but within the last five days he's started a new habit- peeing in his crate.  Even when he was at his worst with the infection he didn't do this.  But now, EVERY single time I put him in there- whether its for 15 minutes or 4 hours- I return to a puddle.  I've made the crate small enough that he has just enough room to lay down, so I didn't figure he would want to sit in it.  It seemed like at first he was peeing on any type of soft material, so I removed his blanket and all of his soft toys.  Now even his hard plastic toys are swimming, and when I came home yesterday his ears were dripping wet, and he was just covered in it.  I've had to give him a bath every day for the last five days- and he hates baths.  

I'm not sure which way to go with this.  I truly believe the infection has been taken care of, he doesn't have to go to pee nearly as often as he had been previously.  He still goes frequently, but I'm guessing that's just the puppy in him, and if he's out of his crate and roaming around, 80% of the time he lets me know he has to go out.  I do work an erratic schedule, different every week, anywhere from 9-12 hr shifts.  While I'm gone I have people stop by to let him out, usually twice a day.  They, too, have never had a problem with him going to the bathroom in his crate until this week.  Do you think he's doing this because he's annoyed with being in there?  Related to the UTI?  Just a puppy phase?   The little darling is costing me a fortune in paper towels and Nature's Miracle.  I'd appreciate any thoughts or suggestions before I resort to hanging a "free puppy" sign around his neck.  Thanks! :-)

[Linda And Loo]

I would share this problem with your Vet! One of my dogs had a bad UTI with crystals a few months ago and it really messes up their system. RB was already 2yrs and accidents were a thing of the past until the UTI. She had 2 accidents at the door just because we could not get her out fast enough! I was amazed at how often she went outside to go, until we finally got her cleared up! She was on special food for 6 months before we got her back on regular dog food! Good luck and patience is a must!

[Pilar, Sophie & Rico]

I feel your frustration. Our Rico is going on 5 months and still "potty training". I crate him and he still pees in the crate every now and then. I cant believe it when I open the crate and hes wet from head to toe!! I happen to be home most of the day and it doesnt matter how many times I take him out. He's getting better but its a slow learning process. He also had a UTI when younger and I'm not sure if that messes them up as far as "potty training". Patience is key. Have the vet re test him. I get my paper towels from the wholesale club and am on my 2nd bottle of natures miracle. Lol. Don't give up he'll catch on.

[Mandy & Benny]

I'm on gallon #2!  Good luck to you as well! :-)

[Veronica Z.]

My puppy had an extremely persistent UTI when we got her and it made it impossible to crate train her, she would just go in there nearly every time. Her UTI was so persistent we eventually found that she had a bladder stone. The persistence ultimately led to our needing one final month long course of antibiotics (after 2 or 3 shorter rounds) and a post-antibiotic urinalysis just to be sure it was gone. Did the vet do another urinalysis? I would suggest calling or seeing the vet and asking what he/she thinks. I know that for my little M.J. probiotics did wonders because after being on antibiotics for so long her system was just off but the long course of antibiotics seems to have really only affected her pooping. I would definitely consult with the vet because we mistook the frequent peeing with the usual puppy stuff too, although I think some of it was wishful thinking. Let us know how it goes! :)

[Mandy & Benny]

The vet said she would do another urinalysis 2 weeks after his antibiotics are finished.  They were done last night, but I'll probably be calling her sooner.  I was convinced that the infection was gone until today, when he went to the bathroom no less than 15 times in two hours.  I basically sat outside all day because Benny is forever asking to go out.  It's just easier to do that but I can't get anything else done.  Did that bladder stone pass or just go away with the antibiotics?  I'm worried this is going to be a continuous thing...

[Veronica Z.]

15 times in two hours sounds like the UTI is still there to me but ask the vet of course. M.J.'s bladder stone was actually the reason antibiotics weren't working. The vet explained it as the stone 'hiding' the bacteria so it would just come back over and over. Unfortunately, M.J.'s bladder stone eventually caused a blockage and we had to rush her to the vet for surgery. We were told that a stone will not go away with antibiotics (only with an Rx diet or surgery), but of course none of this means that Benny has a stone and I certainly hope he doesn't. Just watch out for him trying to pee over and over, not being able to get anything out, and acting lethargic. The vet had warned us to look for that so we ran over to them as soon as we saw these symptoms in M.J.
The constant peeing is cause enough to call the vet for his/her thoughts. I know how frustrating it can be when you feel like nothing is working and it's never going to end but hang in there, I know that with M.J. once we finally kicked the UTI housebreaking was soooooo easy. :)

[Mandy & Benny]

Do you remember what antibiotic she was given?  Benny has been getting clavamox.  I'm a pharmacist, and I know that you don't treat people with the human version (Augmentin) for UTI's because that drug doesn't work well on the bacteria that causes a UTI.  I know nothing about veterinary medicine- I wonder if different bugs cause UTI's in pets.?... I don't want to be THAT person and question the vet, I'm just curious if a different medication might work better.  I appreciate all of your info, it's been helpful.  Once the stone was removed and M.J. was back to normal, do you have to worry about them coming back again?  Is it something that these dogs are prone to now or is it hopefully just one unfortunate occurrence? 

[Veronica Z.]

Clavamox was the antibiotic that she was on, though they had given her Baytril at first but I had them swtich it because its safety is questionable in puppies so young. Clavamox worked great once the stone was removed, as it was the presence of the stone that was preventing it from working. There are different types of bacteria that can cause a UTI which is why they not only did a urinalysis but also a culture so that they could determine which particular bacteria caused her UTI but also because evidently a negative result on the urinalysis may not be conclusive (as was true for her after the first round of antibiotics, negative urinalysis but definite bacteria growth in the culture). Clavamox (like Baytril) treats many different kinds of bacteria and is quite effective, which is why they started her on it right away even before the results of the culture came back. Had the culture shown that the bacteria she had was more responsive to another kind of antibiotic then they would have switched her at that point.

For M.J. it turned out that given the circumstances and the type of stone she had (which was determined when it was sent off for analysis post-surgery), she would not need to be on any kind of special diet or anything like that in order to control stone formation in the future. What we do have to do is get a urinalysis and culture every six months just to make sure that she is UTI free, since it was the presence of the UTI for so long that allowed the stone to form. I know there are some dogs that are actually quite prone to stone formation, Dalmatians for example, but I wouldn't worry too much about it just yet. I know that Dalmatians are very prone to urate stones, Miniature Poodles can be prone to calcium oxalate stones, and Goldens and Labs can be prone to silicate stones (M.J. had a struvite stone). If you want to read up some more on stones I found this article helpful when I was driving myself nuts a few months ago: http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/13_6/features/Kidney-Stones...

I hope Benny has nothing more than an incredibly persistent and difficult to treat UTI. Every single vet I've spoken to since (and there are many in her vet's office) just goes on and on about how completely crazy it is that this happened to her because it is so very unlikely for a puppy her age (she was 2-3 months during this whole ordeal) to experience this. Hopefully hers is just an isolated case and she'll just end up in some doggie medical journal some day but I am truly glad that her vet mentioned the highly unlikely possibility of a stone to us so that when the blockage ocurred we knew to get her to them asap (the stone even managed to hide from us in xrays a couple of times, lucky us). Keep us all informed about Benny's progress! He is such a beautiful doodle! :)

[Mandy & Benny]

Thanks for the link and all of your great information.  It's very helpful!  This boy has me guessing though- I've been home with him all day and no accidents at all.  He's asked to go outside when he's needed to go to the bathroom, which has been maybe 7-8 times all day.  Seems fine today.  Now tomorrow, who knows?!!

[Veronica Z.]

That's awesome! I hope Benny's progress continues! :)

[Helen & Kirby]

I went through this when Kirby was a puppy too.  It was a bad bladder infection (e-coli)  that took a very long time to get over.  I found that Probiotics was a huge help too.

[KLN]

I would agree that you should talk to your vet. Of course every dog is different but they usually will do most anything to avoid peeing in their crate so this seems like abnormal behavior.

The only other thing I can think of is the length of time he's in his crate. They say an hour for every month old. Finn is four months but I have left him up to five hours. You said you work 9-12 hour shifts and that you have friends stop by to let him out...do you think he's getting enough time out of his crate to pee as much as he needs? It might be helpful to get a dog walker to come twice a day while you are working so he's out walking and "marking his spot"/ie: peeing A LOT on the days he's being crated.

Poor little Benny (and you!)! Keep us posted and good luck!