Can someone evaluate this recipe?

[Rory]

I know most of you don't approve of homecooking for puppies (mine is 7 months, ~43 lbs) but since I have the go-ahead from my new holistic vet (my regular vet suggested Iams!), I have decided to home cook 1 daily meal for my doodle (along with 1 uber-high quality kibble meal, which is the smaller meal of the day, mostly because she avoids all commercial food). Here is the recipe I am following:

12 oz muscle meat (this week is chunks of beef stew)
1-2 eggs
2 oz liver (or other organ meat)
2 oz veg or legumes
2 oz cottage cheese or greek-style yoghurt
.5-1 tbsp olive oil

Supplements:
Bone meal (providing ~3000mg/ 1000 kcal consumed)
Digestive enzymes
Probiotics
Omega-3s


From my calculations, this meal provides about 1300 calories, which is about 70-75% her daily calorie requirement.

Does anyone see anything glaringly wrong with this meal? I am basically looking for second (and third, and fourth) opinions here. I didn't trust my first vet when it came to nutrition, but I don't want to embrace the opinions of my holistic vet wholeheartedly either.

Thanks!

[Tammy & Gracie]

I will tell you how I do it, however it is not very scientific. For dinner, I use for all my meals 33-50% meat/protein, 25% carb, 25-50% veggies/fruit. I vary these greatly to vary the nutrients. For veggies I commonly use green beans, carrots, broccoli, cabbage, squash, asparagus, parsnips, canned pumpkin, unsweet applesauce, an small amounts of peas or beans all flavors. Once in awhile I used collard greens and any other exotic veggie that fancies my attention. I saute most of the veggies in EVOO. I use whatever meat, mostly chicken but also ground pork, beef, salmon, etc. I do add some organ meat occasionally and am sure to serve a raw bone 2 or 3 times a week as dessert. The carbs almost always include sweet potatoes, brown rice and occasionally pasta of some sort. I supplement with a good multi vitamin, a squirt of salmon oil and about 1/8 t eggshell powder (I make myself instead of any kind of bone meal). I supplement a little "super premium" kibble in the morning with some chopped fresh fruit and a few spoons of yogurt. This plan is working very well at my house!

Your plan looks good to me but stay in the loop with your vet since your pup is still growing to make sure everything remains as it should be. Again i do try to vary all the ingredients to "cover all my nutrirional bases". I have a habit of cooking every other weekend and freezing in individual portions. It's alot of work but the benefits to Gracie's health have made it worth all efforts.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Just to clarify in terms of macronutrients, Tammy is using the word "carbs" for starch. All plant foods are primarily carbohydrate; but potatoes, rice, and pasta are starchy, or complex, carbohydrates.

[Tammy & Gracie]

Yes, sorry. I do use that as a term for starch.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It isn't that we don't approve of homecooking for puppies, it's just a concern that they might not be getting all the vitamins and minerals they need in the correct proportions during this high-growth developmental period. I'm a big believer in multi-vitamin supplements for people, and for dogs who are eating homecooked or raw diets. The one great advantage of high-quality kibble is that you know it has all the vitamins and minerals in the correct ratios to each other.
Your recipe is very, very high in protein. You have a pretty high amount of fat, too, but almost no carbohydrate. I am not a veterinary nutritionist, and I don't know what proportion of a dog's diet should be comprised of carbohydrates, but by weight, this menu is only about 10% carbohydrate. Only the 2 oz. of vegetables have any significant carb content. Again, i don't know if this is a problem for dogs or not. But most of the macronutrient percentages I see in both grain-free commercial and homecooked foods have the carbs at about 30% or better.

[Sue, Murphy and Bella ()*o*()]

Your recipe looks fine to me, and you have put a lot of time, effort and calculation into it, so you can't go too wrong. Dogs used to survive on table scraps, so I think you have gone beyond that and are looking at it very responsibly.

When I started out I did all the measuring and balancing, but now I am somewhere in between that and the "not too scientific "group and do a loose calculation every batch that I make. I stick with the 50-25-25% as well and that makes it a lot more simple when putting everything together and over the long run (over the months) it all balances out I'm sure.

I had started Murphy with homecooking around the same age as your puppy, even introducing things gradually sooner, around 5 months old, and had a terrific holistic vet at the time and he saw nothing wrong with him being that age either. I do the eggshell powder as well which is very easy to make. I use fish oil and EPO supplements daily and make liver treats that they get a little of daily as well, so all in all if you were to look at their whole cummulative intake I would be pretty confident it is well balanced. Just like feeding our families and growing children, we looked at a well balanced diet overall and didn't measure specific % at every meal. Or at least I didn't and my 2 grown children are very healthy and live healthy lifestyles.

I just had blood work drawn on Murphy about 6 months ago to reassure a non-holistic vet that he has grown up just fine with my program as she was pretty negative about it and again thought Science Diet would be much healthier for him.. (No longer my vet btw) Anyway, his bloodwork was perfect after being on homecooking for over a year, so I feel pretty safe sharing my methods to you. I have learned a lot on the food group, so hang out there too.
I have already begun adding homecooked foods to my new puppies diet from the time she came to me at 10 weeks old and will start with replacing one meal a day with it in the next few months. My two always get yogurt, now canned pumpkin since it is available and I throw in fruits that are too over ripened for us.
Good luck and welcome to the homecooking side! I think once you've done this and see how your pup loves his food that you won't go back.

I also include a lot of veggies

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm glad you mentioned the fish oil, Sue. Rory's recipe contains olive oil, which is Omega 9 fatty acid. Omega 9 is not an essential fatty acid, the body can make Omega 9 as needed. However, Omega 3 & 6 fatty acids are essential, and must be supplied by the diet.
Rory, I would add fish oil to your recipe. The EPO capsules that Sue mentioned will help, too.

[Sue, Murphy and Bella ()*o*()]

Rory, the raw bones Tammy mentioned are loaded with nutrients, are very healthy and great for keeping their teeth clean. I have a hard time with the mess sometimes, so I only give them when they are dirty and going to be getting a bath soon. Some people do cook them, some don't, some take the marrow out and add it to their food, some don't, some throw the bones away after they have cleaned everything off, some don't. Go with what you feel is best as there really are no absolutes other than common sense health and safety issues as in raw meat / marrow laying around for hours, bones that might chip or break (I have not found that to happen though)

[Tammy & Gracie]

Ha that's funny! Marrow bones lying around for hours? I freeze mine. Pull out one after dinner (must wait until after dinner, if she sees me get the bone, she will not eat dinner) 2 or 3 times a week and give it to Gracie still frozen. She will be through with it within 10 minutes. I have my butcher cut the in slices about an inch thick. Nothing left but clean bone. I leave tthe bones around as toys unless one breaks. If it breaks it is thrown out immediately.

[Rory]

Thanks for all the replies!

I forgot to mention that I am also feeding a multivitamin I got from my former vet.

As for a lack of carbs, I was basically trying to mimic a raw diet, while lightly cooking the meat (to about medium rare). Because she is a puppy, I was thinking about adding about 5-10% more carbs, but honestly I haven't found one she really likes yet. She won't eat rice, and will only nibble on pasta. She isn't much of a sweet potato fan either. She is getting some grain-y training treats throughout the day (Zukes, etc.) so I think we are OK for carbs at the moment, especially since she is also getting some kibble.

I am including an omega-3 fish oil, and feeding cans of salmon or sardines about once a week - should I cut out the olive oil altogether? I read it was good for their coats.

[Sue, Murphy and Bella ()*o*()]

You have a lot of ingredients already that are good for their coats, and skin for that matter too. Fish oil, salmon, sardines, multivitamins, Salmon Oil. You will need sunglasses for the shine in her coat if you add anything else!!!! Personally, I feel a good quality shampoo goes a long way for a good coat too. But that may be the old Hair Stylist in me coming out.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Eliminate the olive oil. You don't need it. It is nowhere near as good for the coat as the omega 3 fish-oil. The eggs contain biotin for the skin & coat, also. I agree with Sue, you are going to have one very shiny dog!

[Tammy & Gracie]

I boil my chicken for dogfood. In your case I may try cooking her starch in some of the broth to entice her to like the sweet potatoes or rice a little more. Sometimes if my veggies seem a little dry I will add a few spoons of broth during cooking. I do saute Gracie's veggies in EVOO, no issues. Gracie has a nice soft coat, although it is not real shiny, more a matte finish! However, after reading all the comments, I may try backing off on the EVOO, should save some money.